The Decline of the American Sedan

[Ramone]

As you know, Ford announced recently it is stopping production of its cars except for the Mustang. The Focus will be changed to a small crossover vehicle. I note too that Rolls Royce has now come out with an SUV. So, from upper class to working class, the sedan is dissed. But there are still European and Asian models to be had.

A trunk is still a good thing to have on a car because the thieves cannot see what it is in it. SUVs are popular in Reno. The vehicle burglars love Reno, you see, because they can see your stuff and take it while you are working out and hooking up at the Fitness Center. You could have purchased an Audi A4, but you got another cookie-cutter SUV. Say bye to your stuff, including your guns.

 

[Gullwing]

You think it is hard to find a sedan, try an old fashion station wagon. But there is still the open truck issue. Cargo covers help, but some are not very good.
The Europeans all still have sedans, but many are spreading out into any niche they can think of.
How many cars still have hood ornaments? Mercedes but only no sport package sedans, Rolls Royce, Bentley on some models and??? Caddy did but not sure if anymore now.

 

[LASCHRIS]

As you know, Ford announced recently it is stopping production of its cars except for the Mustang. The Focus will be changed to a small crossover vehicle. I note too that Rolls Royce has now come out with an SUV. So, from upper class to working class, the sedan is dissed. But there are still European and Asian models to be had.

A trunk is still a good thing to have on a car because the thieves cannot see what it is in it. SUVs are popular in Reno. The vehicle burglars love Reno, you see, because they can see your stuff and take it while you are working out and hooking up at the Fitness Center. You could have purchased an Audi A4, but you got another cookie-cutter SUV. Say bye to your stuff, including your guns.

I prefer a suv to a sedan. I would not want to be the unlucky person in a smart car if a suv or truck T-bones one. So many reckless drivers here, I want to be in something with bulk.
Did all the thieves move to Reno? I hope so. Tint your windows, hide your stuff. After market alarm system. Take your weapon with you, and lock it up in your locker. Put it in a non gun box so a libtard do-gooder don't rat you out to fitness center management. And another thing, I have not seen any sheriff's community service vans in Vegas. Put the thieves to work picking up Walmart plastic bags in vacant lots. That or jail time. 100 hours in the sunshine might give them incentive to find another line of work.

 

[Just an Average Joe]

You think it is hard to find a sedan, try an old fashion station wagon. But there is still the open truck issue. Cargo covers help, but some are not very good.
The Europeans all still have sedans, but many are spreading out into any niche they can think of.
How many cars still have hood ornaments? Mercedes but only no sport package sedans, Rolls Royce, Bentley on some models and??? Caddy did but not sure if anymore now.

The SUV has become the station wagon. At least now with the car based SUV's, they don't have the same gas mileage penalty as truck based SUV's, and have more interior space.

Never been to Europe, but my understanding is that the roads are much narrower in general, and gas is much more expensive, so trucks in Europe (and truck based SUV's) are usually only work vehicles.

Doesn't Jaguar still have a "leaping jaguar" hood ornament?

 

[Gullwing]

I prefer a suv to a sedan. I would not want to be the unlucky person in a smart car if a suv or truck T-bones one. So many reckless drivers here, I want to be in something with bulk.

There is video of an original Smart car going 70 mph into concrete barrier at a slight angle. The passenger door still opened and closed. The Smart car is based about the safety cell which is impressively strong, but another thing the Smart does in an accident is bounce off and roll away.
Not saying it wont get effed up in an accident, but it is better than many small cars.

 

[Gullwing]

The SUV has become the station wagon. At least now with the car based SUV's, they don't have the same gas mileage penalty as truck based SUV's, and have more interior space.

Never been to Europe, but my understanding is that the roads are much narrower in general, and gas is much more expensive, so trucks in Europe (and truck based SUV's) are usually only work vehicles.

Doesn't Jaguar still have a "leaping jaguar" hood ornament?

Jag might still use the leaping cat on some, but it seems to be going away also.

Yes the SUV has replaced the station wagon. SUVs are jacked up higher with or without beefed up suspension which is the cause of different mpg. Mercedes E class wagon has more interior space than most SUVs, but in general MB has more interior space than others in similar model ranges.
Europeans do have narrower roads and gas is 4 to 5 times more expensive. European have many more choices in engines gas and diesel. A model in the US might have a choice of large V6 or V8s, but in Europe you can choose I4, V6 or V8 in gas or diesel and different displacements with or without turbos.
Commercial trucks in US usually have engine in front of driver, in Europe due to size restrictions most/all are cab over.

 

[Just an Average Joe]

Station wagons RULED when I was a kid.

Another reason for their demise is the MINIVAN.


Never owned one (the wife refused, and instead insisted on full size gas guzzling SUV's), but have rented them several times on vacation, once on a drive from Niagra Falls, NY, all the way to Bar Harbor, Maine, and I can definitely see why they are so popular. Even with 4 full size suitcases and 4 people, there was TONS of room to stretch out.

 

[LASCHRIS]

There is video of an original Smart car going 70 mph into concrete barrier at a slight angle. The passenger door still opened and closed. The Smart car is based about the safety cell which is impressively strong, but another thing the Smart does in an accident is bounce off and roll away.
Not saying it wont get effed up in an accident, but it is better than many small cars.

I agree, the smart car is well engineered. What about a T-bone with a heavy vehicle, laws of physics come to mind. what about customer modified vehicles that defeat safety engineering? I ride a full size HD. I know if I get hit by a car, or truck, I am going to be hurt. Don't matter how big it is either. Personally I miss the luxury cars of the 60's. It is like riding a sofa. Great for long trips. Of course gas was lots cheaper. Station wagons were great for family trips. The best seat was in the back. American car makers have been wrong before, I think they are wrong again. Remember the AMC Pacer?

 

[Gullwing]

I agree, the smart car is well engineered. What about a T-bone with a heavy vehicle, laws of physics come to mind. what about customer modified vehicles that defeat safety engineering? I ride a full size HD. I know if I get hit by a car, or truck, I am going to be hurt. Don't matter how big it is either. Personally I miss the luxury cars of the 60's. It is like riding a sofa. Great for long trips. Of course gas was lots cheaper. Station wagons were great for family trips. The best seat was in the back. American car makers have been wrong before, I think they are wrong again. Remember the AMC Pacer?

Smart car is 8ft 8 inches nose to tail. T bone in almost anything is a full broadside. So that helps in distribution of energy. How safe is one car over the next? GM tested a 2015? against a 1955 and most would say 55 would be the safer car, Wrong. Even testing 2005 vs 2015 there is a huge difference between like models. I just kind of step back and look at likely hood of getting into a certain type of crash, plus what year car I am in.
But then I am still convinced I can crash through a brick wall in my 1987 190e at 80mph and walk away. I'm kind of crazy like that.
Mom and Aunt had a Pinto for a while growing up. Dad's family had a wagon and while towing a trailer it fishtailed and ended up rolling over, one uncle rolled out onto the road and ended up on his feet no injury while another seat belted in hurt his head unbuckling upside down. So many variables. Find something you "trust" and leave it at that... or worry.

 

[requiem]

once gas hits $4/gallon and all the yuppies/idiots ditch their SUV's like they did in 09, they'll think again.

i recently traded in my subaru for a gmc sierra. size and safety was a concern considering my subaru was 1/3rd the size of the average vehicle (duelly) on the road here in rural texas, but i needed the utility.

the US makers have been pushing the larger stuff mainly because the margins are better and the stuff with the higher margins are typically NOT made in the US.

 

[GlenBaker]

For the smart car small size, it is relatively safe.
Here are some pictures of a friend's smart car in Georgia who was hit by a women running a red light while he was turning left. He was driving a convertible, same as mine (being a convertible it does not have a full tridion safety cell and 2 less air bags than the coupe) notwithstanding he was banged up but was walking around taking the pictures. A little worse for the driver of the Avalanche who suffered a broken leg and was taken away in an ambulance.
When I asked him if there was any deformity or intrusion into the passenger compartment, he said, no. He did say his coffee cup was knocked out of the cup holder and spilled all over.

 

[requiem]

View attachment 30942View attachment 30943View attachment 30944View attachment 30945View attachment 30946
For the smart car small size, it is relatively safe.
Here are some pictures of a friend's smart car in Georgia who was hit by a women running a red light while he was turning left. He was driving a convertible, same as mine (being a convertible it does not have a full tridion safety cell and 2 less air bags than the coupe) notwithstanding he was banged up but was walking around taking the pictures. A little worse for the driver of the Avalanche who suffered a broken leg and was taken away in an ambulance.
When I asked him if there was any deformity or intrusion into the passenger compartment, he said, no. He did say his coffee cup was knocked out of the cup holder and spilled all over.

much like the VW beetle and its shape lends it to be really safe despite small.

btw - that's some cheap gas in that photo!

 

[LASCHRIS]

much like the VW beetle and its shape lends it to be really safe despite small.

btw - that's some cheap gas in that photo!

The old rear engine beetle. It was the best car to drive in the snow. Weight on the drive wheels. The old beetle floats! If Teddy kennedy was
driving one that dark night, he would of been president. I am not very sure about the front end protection in a crash. It was after all the trunk.

 

[Ramone]

Did all the thieves move to Reno?

It seems they did. Also, they can use a laser flashlight to see through tinted windows. Valuables are at risk if it is not out of sight in a locked trunk. Of course, lock the car too. I am still surprised to see unlocked cars in parking lots around Reno.

 

[Bart Carter]

My VW SUV had a cover that pulled out from the rear seats that covered the cargo area. Nothing to see here.

 

[geargrinder]

Dodge/Chrysler seems to be about the only manufacturer selling a popular sedan anymore. I think it's because they are still putting powerful V8's in them that make incredible power and get poor gas mileage.

I know I loved driving my wife's 2013 Chrylser 300. V8 and all wheel drive. Powerful and fast as hell. She could get almost 20mpg out of it.

But we traded it in for a 2015 Durango R/T. Similar performance and drivetrain, but it would also pull my 24' travel trailer.

 

[Gullwing]

There were strong questions about Fiat dropping Chrysler a week ago. But it seems they will live on, for now.

 

[NYECOGunsmith]

The old
VW Karmann Ghia was actually a pretty safe car , had an uncle who drove them for years, got hit 3 times by drunks, 2 head ons and a T bone, he walked away from all of them. The passenger compartment was a reinforced steel box, with the nose, tail, and sides designed as crumple zones to absorb impact energy. Got pretty good mileage as I recall.

 

[Ramone]

I like the VW Karmann Ghia. It was one of the family cars back in the day, and we drove all over CA in one. In the 1980s, many of them bit the dust (in Huntington Beach) when young men bought them used and turned them into "custom" cars. Totally ruined. Today, my neighbor has one, a 1970 model, and he has restored it (somewhat) into an original mode. Seeing it brings back memories. VW discontinued the Karmann Ghia in 1974 when it started to phase out its air-cooled motors. In 1973, a new one could be had from the VW dealer for $3,000. That amount is just under 17k in today's dollars. Compact cars remain popular today. This price could be realistic in today's market if VW wanted to do a modernized version of the car.

 

[bigx5murf]

You can't compare European, or Asian car markets with ours. They pay significantly more in fuel and taxes than we do, and they have significantly lower percentages of vehicle ownership. Their population densities tend to be greater as well, making parking space a premium. In most of these countries, owning any car, even a small one is usually a luxury, most people go their whole lives never owning a car.

 

[Ramone]

You can't compare European, or Asian car markets with ours. They pay significantly more in fuel and taxes than we do, and they have significantly lower percentages of vehicle ownership. Their population densities tend to be greater as well, making parking space a premium. In most of these countries, owning any car, even a small one is usually a luxury, most people go their whole lives never owning a car.

Sometimes I think the socialists want to do the same thing here: Get everyone out of their cars and into public transportation. Yet, the U.S. is a large country that needs its cars, trucks, and highways to move the economy. Contrast this situation to what is happening in Russia: Automobile manufacturing is a big deal because it is considered a vital part of economic modernization. Western companies such as Ford, GM, VW, and Renault make cars there now. Hyundai is a bestseller.

 

[Rodentkiller]

I still own a Ford LTD Crown Victoria last of the Ford Big car and it is still comfortable after 30 years, Cops loved the Crown Victoria and still want them to patrol in.

 

[turborich]

Start buying old Ford crown Victoria P71 police interceptors. A genuine body on frame rear wheel drive car with the extremely dependable 4.6 liter V-8, 4R70W automatic transmission, dual exhaust. 1998-2011 models, 2003's and up got rack and pinion steering. Plenty of truck space!

 

[turborich]

I still own a Ford LTD Crown Victoria last of the Ford Big car and it is still comfortable after 30 years, Cops loved the Crown Victoria and still want them to patrol in.

I have a crown vic as well, absolutely love it. A very well built vehicle with an engine capable of going 300-400k miles!

 

[JTW_Jr]

2003 Grand Marquis here, just over 100k miles....hoping it lasts another 100k.

 

[SixshooterSam]

2003 Grand Marquis here, just over 100k miles....hoping it lasts another 100k.

It will if you take care of it. My '95 Town Car has 312k and is rock solid. I have many customers, family and such with various Panthers of all years and every one of them was rock solid reliable, well past 200k miles. In my experience, the '91-97 Town Cars are some of the most reliable cars on the planet. Extremely low average maintenance cost over their long lifespan, and they are extremely nice cars to drive. In particular I am fond of '95-97, as you get the updated dash, as well as the far superior 4R70W transmission, as well as superior engine management starting in '95. '95 and early '96 also have the added benefit of an aluminum intake manifold, instead of the later plastic manifold which cracks.

If someone is on a budget and needs a car, I always point them towards a Panther. Always.

 

[secretasianman]

I like SUVs for higher tow capacity and 4WD/AWD. Another advantage is the ability to fold down the rear seats and sleep in the back if you do a one or two person camping trip (of course that'll vary based on size of the SUV). They also have better clearance for dirt roads to go shooting.

And as Bart Carter said, many come with or have available for sale pullout covers to hide your stuff in the back. If a thief is going to smash your windows, getting to the trunk via the rear seat is simple.

Yes it is a shame Ford has abandoned the sedan market. I bought a fuel efficient Subaru Impreza for commuting in the snow because Ford/Chevy never released a proper competitor.

 

[MAC702]

Y'all missed the boat:

 

[flyer338]

In my opinion the two biggest factors in the reduction in the number of deaths from motor vehicle crashes are anti-lock brakes and airbags. If you are driving a vehicle that leaks either, you are giving up an important safety advantage.

 

[SixshooterSam]

In my opinion the two biggest factors in the reduction in the number of deaths from motor vehicle crashes are anti-lock brakes and airbags. If you are driving a vehicle that leaks either, you are giving up an important safety advantage.

I would posit that crash safety has had far more of an impact on survival rates in accidents than driving aids. I don't believe the number of accidents per capita has declined, but the survival rate per accident certainly has dropped. Driving aids give people a false sense of security and tend to make people drive faster and more reckless than is safe for conditions, so when the accident does eventually happen, they're going substantially faster and are more likely to be hurt. We all see it on the road everyday, people driving waaaaay too fast in the rain, snow, etc..

My survival rate driving a bunch of classic cars with drum brakes, no ABS/airbags and bias ply tires is right at 100%, because I pay attention to what others on the road are doing and I drive accordingly. I also make driving the absolute priority when I'm behind the wheel. Unlike all these (a**hole)s on the road who are using their phone or otherwise not paying attention to the task of driving.

I make a terrible passenger in most people's cars because I do not tolerate people making driving a secondary task to some other nonsense, and I will say something about it right away, since it's potentially my life too if they (f**k) up.