No serial number = C&R in 2019?




Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#1
So, if serial numbers were not required prior to the GCA of 1968, doesn’t it stand to reason that any older (clearly I’m referring to factory built firearms) that does not have a serial number, is pre-1968, and therefore is a Curio and Relic?

Since the GCA was effective in Late October, that’s a pretty decent window that would have been unserialized but still 50 years old in 2018, but anyway it would be safe to say that anything manufactured after November 1968 would have had a serial number, yes?

What I’m getting at is if I find an old shotgun or .22 or what have you that isn’t specifically listed as a C&R, but it has no serial and the basic production information on that firearm shows that it clearly could have been manufactured prior to 1968, it should by all rights be a C&R firearm, yes?

Is this a logical way of determining it?
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#2
In other words: I’m asking if a lack of serial number on an older firearm serves as evidence at this juncture that the gun is 50 or older since the last date that guns could be produced without a serial is now 50 years and 3 months ago.
 

MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
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#3
I would say yes. I also would have just entered "none" in my book without even asking anyone. :D

The book gets destroyed every three years as my license expires anyway, and no one's ever seen it.

I suppose before 1968 became 50 years ago, we'd want some research as to when that company was in business and making that model, if we needed to be sure.
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#4
I would say yes. I also would have just entered "none" in my book without even asking anyone. :D

The book gets destroyed every three years as my license expires anyway, and no one's ever seen it.

I suppose before 1968 became 50 years ago, we'd want some research as to when that company was in business and making that model, if we needed to be sure.
Precisely what you said in that last sentence is how it used to be.


I’m not asking for me, I’m asking in the event that I try to get a non-local seller or other dealer to play ball.

I’m specifically interested in an older single shot shotgun made by savage, and if it has no serial, that puts it prior to November 1968
 

mpzreb17

Troublemaking Redneck
#5
So, if serial numbers were not required prior to the GCA of 1968, doesn’t it stand to reason that any older (clearly I’m referring to factory built firearms) that does not have a serial number, is pre-1968, and therefore is a Curio and Relic?

Since the GCA was effective in Late October, that’s a pretty decent window that would have been unserialized but still 50 years old in 2018, but anyway it would be safe to say that anything manufactured after November 1968 would have had a serial number, yes?

What I’m getting at is if I find an old shotgun or .22 or what have you that isn’t specifically listed as a C&R, but it has no serial and the basic production information on that firearm shows that it clearly could have been manufactured prior to 1968, it should by all rights be a C&R firearm, yes?

Is this a logical way of determining it?
I let my license expire this year but had a similar predicament. As long as the firearm is AMERICAN without a serial, making age provable, its an automatic CR. Not counting ARs with fake patina and full auto buttons to avoid FOPA though, NFA rules will still apply on any CR.

All the other criteria applies of course. I think a non American thats discontinued and 50 is legal CR too but am certain on US origin at a point.
 

mpzreb17

Troublemaking Redneck
#7
A non-American had the same standard applied at importation. It must have a serial number to be imported after GCA 1968, so no serial number would have had to be imported before then.
Good point. And in my experience euros were serializing things before that so origin there is easier. Especially Germans and Russians.

Funny story since you're in the business presumably with that commercial tag..missed a call from a number in Martinsburg today. Im not an 01 so you know its rare. I had an SKS sale run through a week or so ago and have had ATF verify a stolen gun originating with my FFL and call about a legit sale before so a chill ran down my spine. Checked the voicemail thinking the buyer probably knocked over a piggly wiggly or something but to my pissed off relief some schmuck is running a telemarketing firm out of ATFs hometown. 😂
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagon Collector
#8
So I just stumbled onto the whole ‘original configuration’ Requirement.

Has that ever been an issue for anybody? ;
Does this technically mean that a sport rises Mauser isn’t C&R eligible? Or a .22 with a shortened barrel? Or a rebarreled action?
 

mpzreb17

Troublemaking Redneck
#9
So I just stumbled onto the whole ‘original configuration’ Requirement.

Has that ever been an issue for anybody? ;
Does this technically mean that a sport rises Mauser isn’t C&R eligible? Or a .22 with a shortened barrel? Or a rebarreled action?
Define "issue"? Ordering one? A rebarrelled action on a senior citizen is fine in same caliber. Shortening a barrel is probably not ok. Selling one youre done with a few years later to another C&R out of state if thats even ok (ive never done it so never looked)? That kinda things on you but the rebarrel is your safe example.

This is why a lot of people stick to milsurps and police trade in sites btw.