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WTS NIB unfired Daniel Defense MK18 factory SBR





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Las Vegas

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#1
WTS NIB unfired Daniel Defense MK18 factory SBR. Milspec plus brown color.

$1,400 firm.

Zero rounds fired by myself. Stayed in the safe wrapped in plastic, taken out for pics only.
I switched the factory flash hider with a new Primary Weapons Triad. Everything else is factory.
All NFA rules apply. Payment first then we can do form 4. Buyer pays for tax stamp and FFL private party transfer fee.
Located in Las Vegas.
PM or Text Seven Zero Two 466o96Four if you have questions or are interested.
First forum “I’ll take it” takes precedence over PM or text.
Thanks.
82E60A86-8B0C-4AC8-B981-541ACC1A7633.jpeg
 

Kinoons

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#5
If the buyer wishes a 16” barrel upper can be attached so they can take ownership. You can transfer the upper once the form 4 goes through. If the person has another SBRed lower they can take the upper as well.
 

4x4Brit

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#6
If the buyer wishes a 16” barrel upper can be attached so they can take ownership. You can transfer the upper once the form 4 goes through. If the person has another SBRed lower they can take the upper as well.
Is that accurate? I think the lower is the serialized NFA item. In which case it’s sits in the FFL’s safe waiting for the new stamp to be approved. Happy to be wrong of course.
 

Kinoons

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Is that accurate? I think the lower is the serialized NFA item. In which case it’s sits in the FFL’s safe waiting for the new stamp to be approved. Happy to be wrong of course.
An AR lower is only subject to NFA rules while it is in NFA configuration. As soon as you put a 16” upper on the lower is is no longer covered by the NFA.

now if you have a less than 16” upper in your possession without a pistol or NFA rifle lower you can get popped for “constructive intent”. Thats the suggestion for the seller keeping the upper. However thinking about it the seller would need to either have no other AR lowers or have another pistol/SBR lower in their possession since they would have the short upper.

Gotta love the ATF and NFA.
 
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#9
The lower is on a form4. For transfer at a store it would have to be moved to a form 3 then to the buyer on a form 4. To do what you’re saying it would have to be “demilled” by him, and the lower taken off the registry. Then the new owner would have to form1 the lower to lawfully remate it to the upper.
 

Kinoons

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The lower is on a form4. For transfer at a store it would have to be moved to a form 3 then to the buyer on a form 4. To do what you’re saying it would have to be “demilled” by him, and the lower taken off the registry. Then the new owner would have to form1 the lower to lawfully remate it to the upper.
totally incorrect.

From AR 15.com
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/SBR-lower-with-16-barrel/51-460818/

The old ATF SBR/SBS FAQ website used to have the following posted:

Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm?
A: Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA firearm is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn't comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.

Q: Who is responsible for notifying the NFA Branch when I transfer the GCA firearm to a FFL or another individual?
A: There is no requirement that the transferor or transferee of a GCA firearm notify the NFA branch of a transfer or that either party determine whether the firearm was previously registered under the NFA. There is no also no requirement for the registrant or possessor of a NFA firearm to notify ATF of the removal of features that caused the firearm to be subject to the NFA; however, ATF recommends the owner notify the NFA Branch in writing if a firearm is permanently removed from the NFA.

Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
A: While a receiver alone may be classified as a firearm under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).

Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.

Q: If I remove the short barrel from the registered SBR or SBS, is the receiver still subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations?
A: If the possessor retains control over the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations. ATF recommends contacting State law enforcement officials to ensure compliance with state and local law.

Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?
A: Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.

So again, once any NFA firearm is no longer in NFA configuration it is not subject to NFA control. Put a 16” upper on your form 4ed lower and you’re free to do anything you wish. Nothing needs to be done to remove the lower from the registry since it’s not a NFA firearm anymore. If someone wanted to put the SBR upper back on the lower they would need to do the form 3 and or 4 dance depending on who, where, and how.
 

Kinoons

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Is that accurate? I think the lower is the serialized NFA item. In which case it’s sits in the FFL’s safe waiting for the new stamp to be approved. Happy to be wrong of course.
also, no need to involve a FFL (aside from the state background check when possession actually changes hands.) You can person to person a form 4 within the state.
 
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Kinoons

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#13
Alright. Good luck with that.
Given your dismissive tone I get the feeling you don’t agree. I have several NFA items, I have done a form 4 from one private owner to another, done my research when buying, and finally offered evidence on why what I say you can do is legal.

While you are entitled to your opinion, in matters of black and white law it doesn’t carry any weight. As such we would all be better served if you kept quiet.
 
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#14
You’re basing your research off things you found on a forum. Call the atf and ask.

As I said, I was done. You’re not the only one with several NFA items.

I’m going to bow out of this out of respect for this forum, if you’d like to discuss telling me to be quiet in person, send me a dm. Other then that, this doesn’t need a reply, we’ve done enough crowding this gentleman’s sale post.
 

Kinoons

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You’re basing your research off things you found on a forum. Call the atf and ask.

As I said, I was done. You’re not the only one with several NFA items.

I’m going to bow out of this out of respect for this forum, if you’d like to discuss telling me to be quiet in person, send me a dm. Other then that, this doesn’t need a reply, we’ve done enough crowding this gentleman’s sale post.
Standard internet tuff guy with the “let’s meet our back response”

My response is to help both the seller and any potential buyer as dealing with form 4s is a bit of a pain. There are mechanisms that do not require dealing with the form 4s if the buyer already has SBRs or pistols and or if the seller wants to remove the short upper and sell the lower alone or with a 16” upper. A buyer could also take the lower without the upper while they wait for the form 4 to be approved.

as to more evidence

https://www.ficarettalegal.com/removal-of-firearms-from-the-national-firearms-act/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/SBR_lower___legal_to_transport_with_non_NFA_upper_/51-369043/

And from the ATF itself
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/which-firearms-are-regulated-under-nfa

Greater than or equal to 16” is no longer under the purview of the NFA.
 

odesskiy

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#16
So technically, if I buy it and show up with a pistol-configured lower, slap the MK18 upper on it, I can also take the MK18 lower and not be subject to NFA? But if I just take the whole thing, I'll be transporting an NFA item home and become a felon? Man, why can't this crap just be abolished already? Makes absolutely no sense. Gubmint can suck my sack!
 

Kinoons

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So technically, if I buy it and show up with a pistol-configured lower, slap the MK18 upper on it, I can also take the MK18 lower and not be subject to NFA? But if I just take the whole thing, I'll be transporting an NFA item home and become a felon? Man, why can't this crap just be abolished already? Makes absolutely no sense. Gubmint can suck my sack!
You are correct sir.
 
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#18
The lower is on a form4. For transfer at a store it would have to be moved to a form 3 then to the buyer on a form 4. To do what you’re saying it would have to be “demilled” by him, and the lower taken off the registry. Then the new owner would have to form1 the lower to lawfully remate it to the upper.
I am sure Demilled is NOT the way to go because you would not be able to remate something that was dystroyed... The following is ATF instructions on demilling a NFA weapon. Also a Form 3 is not normally needed for any in state transfer of an NFA item unless there are some very special buyer or seller created circumstances.

What are ATF’s Acceptable Destruction Procedures?
  • Use an oxy/acetylene torch (not band sawed)
  • Must remove at least ¼ inch of metal per cut
  • Must be made at angles and completely sever the receiver in at least 3 critical locations (specified by model)
Acceptable method of destruction is to completely melt (smelt), shred or crush the firearm receiver. These torch cuts are acceptable alternatives to shredding.
  1. Must pass through the forward wall or barrel mounting area
  2. Must pass through the rear wall
  3. Must pass through an area having a critical fire-control-component mounting pin and/or the slot in which the operating handle reciprocates
An unserviceable firearm is not destroyed (demilled) and is still regulated as a “firearm” under Federal law. Any method of destruction (demilled) must render the firearm so that it is not restorable to firing condition and is otherwise reduced to scrap
 
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I am sure Demilled is NOT the way to go because you would not be able to remate something that was dystroyed... The following is ATF instructions on demilling a NFA weapon. Also a Form 3 is not normally needed for any in state transfer of an NFA item unless there are some very special buyer or seller created circumstances.

What are ATF’s Acceptable Destruction Procedures?
  • Use an oxy/acetylene torch (not band sawed)
  • Must remove at least ¼ inch of metal per cut
  • Must be made at angles and completely sever the receiver in at least 3 critical locations (specified by model)
Acceptable method of destruction is to completely melt (smelt), shred or crush the firearm receiver. These torch cuts are acceptable alternatives to shredding.
  1. Must pass through the forward wall or barrel mounting area
  2. Must pass through the rear wall
  3. Must pass through an area having a critical fire-control-component mounting pin and/or the slot in which the operating handle reciprocates
An unserviceable firearm is not destroyed (demilled) and is still regulated as a “firearm” under Federal law. Any method of destruction (demilled) must render the firearm so that it is not restorable to firing condition and is otherwise reduced to scrap

Disassembled was the word I was looking for, I apologize.