Anne's new Kel-Tec Sub 2000 folding carbine!




Ron_O

Cave Dweller
#1
We picked this up from @TNT yesterday so went out at 6 AM this morning in the cool weather to test it out. Picked this up for Anne as a confidence builder and all-around weapon of choice for her times home alone as well as her traveling and extended stays out of town.

FYI this rifle folds in half to just over 16", one of the coolest things about it. Overall length is just over 29". This is a 9mm Glock 17 mag platform. Peep site rear, adjustable front. Threaded barrel. Adjustable length rear stock butt. Top and bottom rails up front. Around 4.5 lbs. total weight. The charge lever is the pin below the buffer tube. Blow back system, not gas.

As it turns out, after we got back home I learned that this is the first time Anne's ever shot a rifle! Couldn't get her to shoot my big game rifles or shotguns. I picked it up for that reason, with this handling a light round but still being effective and much more accurate than her pistols. Very little kick and as you see she was wearing a tank top with only mild complaints. We folded a small towel over her shoulder after the first mag.

Drawback: She can't rack the cylinder, the spring's too strong. It'll need a bigger rack knob or even an extension for her use. I had no problem but it's a little awkward for a quick clearance. We shot around 75 rounds with no malfunctions. Super smooth.

Scrunching in close to the buffer tube was odd for Anne but she had no issues. Overall it was excellent and she was hitting a 1' square target at about 40 yards out while free standing. We only had an hour so didn't take a table out and that would have been best. She did better resting against the van. Overall I was thrilled and impressed just seeing her with this little semi-auto, and I could see her excitement as she began drawing down on the targets further out, just to see what she could hit. Empowerment!

My impression? YOWZER! I had fun and could easily put 1000 rounds through it if someone else was loading the mags. Great fun to shoot and does exactly as intended. The stock butt was a bit forward for me, making it tighter in, but in a critical situation that was actually fine, nice and compact. Easy to thump a lot of targets under 50 yards if the need presents itself. It does exactly as intended. Recoil is minimal. In fact it was odd putting a decent round out there with such minimal recoil (as compared to an ineffective .22 or more powerful .308).

The sights were better than expected. A flip-up red dot would be nice for target shooting or other uses, but we'll never go there, though it would allow you to hold your head higher in a more natural shooting position. I stood some water-filled 2 liter soda bottles out at 45 yards and was initially scaring them good while free standing, but when posting on the van it was easy to nail them, and they exploded with Win white box 115 gr. FMJ's. A human target center mass would be a breeze out to about 75 yards but I'd put max free standing zone in the 60 yard range, out to 80+ with support. How effective will a 9mm be beyond 80 yards? There is a better burn with this longer barrel, over 100 fps compared to a 4" if I remember correctly.

Anne stands 5'-2" tall and could use a bit shorter stock herself so I may check on modding it down, but she said don't bother when asked. I thought I'd want to drill out the rear peep a bit, for quicker target acquisition, but didn't see a need after shooting it. I may add a pad to the butt plate on Anne's behalf, I have some thick felt that would work great. Doesn't need one for most of us, even shooting in a t-shirt.

Beyond that I don't see the need for a lot of mods. It does what it's supposed to do effectively. Folds up to be tucked away, deploys quickly, and shoots light and tight for thumping a lot of targets quickly under 60 yards or so. Under 40 and you're popping melons with a steady hold. This is NOT something that a group of gang-bangers wants to be staring down from ANY distance. Advantage YOURS.

At the right price I highly recommend this Sub 2000. It's fun to shoot but serves an excellent purpose overall. Carry it in your rig with your 9mm pistol and you have the best of both worlds with interchangeable mags (they offer several versions). But for us it may be the ideal California weapon of choice when traveling down there. We normally leave our handguns home and toss our pistol grip shotgun behind the seat, so if this is legal we may take it down instead. Will have to check on their latest Kommie codes regarding mag capacity, pistol grips, etc. Whatever the case, it's nice knowing it's there. And it gives me relief knowing Anne has a bigger arrow in her quiver should she ever have to resort to that.

Anne KelTec Sub 2000.jpg
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stitch702

Recovering Gunaholic
Forum Supporter
#4
👍 You got a great deal. Like I told @TNT when he was selling it, I would have swooped it up had I not already had one. It makes a great camping gun because it folds so nicely and is able to fit in my camo bag. My wife loves to shoot it, but she too had difficulty racking the slide. I hope it becomes easier once I put a bit more round through it to break it in. Anyway looks like you guys had a great time, enjoy the new rifle!
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
#5
Very nice!

If you don't mind, price?

Brad
Hey Brad,

The price was the closer. Picked it up at his advertised $350 here on NS. Kind of Anne's version of an AR or AK. I love it too, could see setting up a specialized range just for slamming multiple targets near and far, high and low, big and small.

I think the oddest thing is that you expect more recoil if you shoot a lot of larger guns but quickly find that you're getting the best of both worlds. I used to think it was a waste to have such a small caliber carbine but now it makes perfect sense. Nice to have in the quiver.

Looking forward to our next outing.
 

jfrey123

I aim to misbehave...
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
#6
I have one of the Gen1 models in .40 that shares mags with my Glock. I like it a ton. Primary purpose was a truck gun while 4 wheeling and folded it rides in the door cubby as if it was made for that spot. I was surprised with the accuracy, and it almost seems too small to be a “real” firearm.
 

Ka Lbo

Member
Forum Supporter
#7
Hey Brad,

The price was the closer. Picked it up at his advertised $350 here on NS. Kind of Anne's version of an AR or AK. I love it too, could see setting up a specialized range just for slamming multiple targets near and far, high and low, big and small.

I think the oddest thing is that you expect more recoil if you shoot a lot of larger guns but quickly find that you're getting the best of both worlds. I used to think it was a waste to have such a small caliber carbine but now it makes perfect sense. Nice to have in the quiver.

Looking forward to our next outing.

Ron,

Appreciate the additional feedback. Probably going to pick one up.

Brad
 

Ron_O

Cave Dweller
#8
I have to correct an earlier comment on the 'effective range beyond 80 yards?' of a 9mm. A YouTube video featured a test to show the 'effective kill zone' of a 9mm round, using 'Army standards' of shooting through a 1/2" thick pine board. They used an even thicker 3/4" sheet of plywood. Every time the shot hit the edges, the rounds also penetrated the 2x4 support frame BEHIND the plywood!

They used the Sub 2000 for their longer shots and put rounds through the plywood at 440 yards (400 meters)! Lobbing the round for sure, but an effective kill nonetheless. I guess if you can see it, hit it, and put the round in a vital area, your target is going down. The ball rounds went completely through a ballistic gel torso at 440 yards!

That's good to know as it applies to this weapon. With a good rest the sky's the limit.

Here's the video of them testing out to 440 using ball ammo with the Sub 2000:


And here's the same, Part 2, using HST defense 124 gr. HP ammo:

 
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#9
I have owned 5 of these, from Gen 1 to Gen 3, and sold each one. It has pros and cons. Pros are price, size, folds in half, you can own a rifle and pistol in same caliber and same mags, reasonable accuracy with decent optics, easy to transport. Cons...horrible trigger, horrid charging handle (which I originally thought was just okay, but came to detest, even with extension), uncomfortable stock position, cannot fold rifle with any top-mounted accessories. I certainly do not see it as a woman's gun, in any sense, because of the charging handle and impossible cheek weld without sacrificing good shooting form. If your gal likes it, that is great.

On the other hand, it is an absolutely best-choice for a SHTF rifle because you can own a popular handgun, and shoot the same round and mag in the rifle. THAT will be invaluable if we ever get to that point. Also, if folds up neatly inside a small backpack, and travels easily.
 

Grumpyoldretiredcop

uber Member
Forum Supporter
#10
I had a Gen 1, only sold it because I'm left-handed and it dumped hot cases on my shirt and in the crook of my right elbow. There are replacement charging handles like this one that let the operator get a better grip, although it doesn't reduce the spring pressure that has to be overcome. I don't think I've ever seen a successful recoil pad design though.

If you intend to take it to CA, you'll need to make it "featureless" as otherwise it is deemed an "assault weapon". The easiest way to do that is to install a grip fin on the pistol grip. That's what I did with mine prior to escaping from CA. Magazines must be 10 rounders. That does take away a lot of the advantages of the SUB-2K over a 9MM handgun that would be easier to conceal and possibly easier for your lady to use.