Concealed carry

Phoebe · 08-31-2009, 03:23 PM

Yes, it seems like it's endlessly discussed and as much as I read, I still end up somewhat befuddled when trying to figure out what options will work for me.

I am a relatively small framed female. In the winter, I may be able to make accommodations for CC, but during the rest of the year, it may be much more difficult.

I am assuming that I will need a "gun wardrobe", meaning, there will be days when I simply can't carry my XD9 -- probably a lot of days.

I am assuming I will need something small for days when nothing else will work. I've fired the Kel-Tec, and in ten rounds, was not able to shoot it well. Though I'd guess practice may help. But the price and size make me think that if I had one, I'd definitely not leave the house without carrying _something_. And that makes me wonder about purchasing one. There is one for sale on the board here. And I've seen them on for sale elsewhere for a very affordable price point.

In terms of "likelihood of never walking out the door unarmed", I've also looked at the Bersa Thunder -- but the price of .380 ammo freaks me out. And some people say it's junky, while others seem to love it.

I'd rather stick to the 9mm platform.

So, next I look at the Kahr. I can shoot that gun well. The size seems to be the perfect combo for absorbing recoil vs concealability. Though compared to the Kel-Tec, it's still bigger and I wonder if I could/would ALWAYS carry it?

Plus, it is expensive. Even used Kahrs seem to be spendy. And, nearly every FTF I've had, has been with (two different) Kahrs. And that's not a situation I'd want to be in if I were really needing to defend myself. People's take on the reliability seems to vary.

Since I love my XD so much, I've looked at the XD-SC but, so I have a hard time shooting that one well. Perhaps it's just practice. OTOH, I think I'd also be happier with a thinner grip, and since the SC is double stacked, it's kind of clunky.

I can shoot the Glock 26 well, but again, I worry that the size/shape means I would be more likely to leave it at home.

If money weren't a factor, the Kahr is probably the right set of compromises. But the Kel-Tec (IF I could learn to shoot it), is tiny enough that I'm sure I'd never leave home without it.

I wouldn't be able to buy the Kahr anytime soon.

I could buy the Kel-Tec.

I think I'm talking myself into a Kel-Tec....while saving my money for a Kahr sometime next year.

Once my CCW comes in, I'd like to carry in all places where I am legally able to do so. And these other choices all seem too tempting to leave at home.

I don't know if there is a question in here. Mostly talking aloud. But, maybe the question is...do you think I could learn to shoot the snappy Kel-Tec well enough to qualify with it? That gun is pretty hard to handle. :-(

Wow, this got long! So I tried to bold maker names to improve scannability.

Off to Metro today to drop off my CCW app.

Facejackets · 08-31-2009, 03:37 PM

When I first started to CC, I realized I had a big problem too. I had to start buying shirts a size too big.

I did find a good holster. My girlfriend bought me a Kholster and it works great. I am stoked because it fits my Glock 17, and my Glock 26, which rules because I don't have any cash to buy a new holster.

You will have to learn how to dress around the gun. Getting a good gun belt will help with that ALOT.

Phoebe · 08-31-2009, 03:44 PM

I understand that in an ideal world, I'd dress around the gun. And sometimes, I may do just that.

But some of my identity is in my appearance. If I have to wear clothing that makes me feel fat, ugly, masculine, guess what? The gun will be left at home. And if it's at home, it does me no good.

It is hard enough to find attractive clothing without adding in new levels of difficulty.

I may have mentioned elsethread, or maybe it was elseboard, but I would feel more victimized than I already do, if I had to wear clothing that made me not feel good.

So, when possible, clothing may allow me to carry my XD9 and still feel like I look attractive.

When not possible, I need an alternative other than "leave gun at home."

And purse carry, scares me. I don't perceive that as an option for me. Too easy to set it down, people get into it or steal it. It just seems like a bad idea. If I'm going to carry, I want my firearm on my person.

If I have a little alternative, like the Kel-Tec, there is no excuse to leave home without it, and very little clothing that couldn't handle it.

(I think I've talked myself into the Kel-Tec and then maybe some time next year, I can buy a Kahr.)

That Kel-Tec would be easy to hide.

I'm going to see if I can borrow one again and figure out if I can improve my shooting with it.

jfrey123 · 08-31-2009, 04:13 PM

I'm not sure how this thread has almost 2,000 views and practically no replies... Weird.

Anyway, you brought up your preference for 9mm, so I'm going to keep it there. I'm going to start with one question, and hope you don't take offence, but do you carry a purse? (Not implying "girly girl" here, just asking)

If you carry a purse, you're in a world of luck. Seems to me that nearly every woman does have one of some sort and depending on the size of your purse, you could fit anything from the sub compacts you listed above to your fullsize XD9 on a daily basis, WITH RELOADS!!! It makes me jealous, since I can't seem to pull off the fanny pack thing.

If you don't purse carry, depending on your build (again, no offence) will weigh heavily on your options. Ankle carry is 100% out, since most jeans on women are too tight. Waist carry, either IWB or OWB, will be difficult I would imagine because lots of female clothing is tight at a minimum, and often is bare mid-drift (

)... Shoulder carry is difficult, you'd need some of the "carry clothes" you referenced earlier: vests, larger overshirts, jackets, etc. Might not be the most practical in the summer, and shoulder carry is more difficult on nature's more.... um... "gifted" women. Pocket carry is another option, but I find you need one of the micro 380's or a small airweight like the one I have to pull it off, also needing baggy/comfortable jeans and not the skin tight women's type.

Regardless of the way you carry it, Rule #1 of a carry gun is carry it. This means it needs to be a gun you are well practiced with, confident with the operation of, and fits your carry needs size wise. For me personally with a little spare tire over the belt, this means I carry IWB. I carry a baby Glock, and generally need a "guy fit" t-shirt or polo for concealment. Carrying a gun with a forward cant help a little bit more.

The Kel-Tec isn't a bad weapon, none of the weapons you listed are. If it fits your hand, is comfortable to shoot, and you enjoy, then by all means you should go for it. Never buy a gun that feels awkward in your hand, that feeling rarely goes away. Need more information about what sort of clothes you wear daily to help more, more detail on what makes what you call a shirt that "makes you feel fat". I tell everyone a gun on your hip is better than a gun at home, and I hope you find a way to carry daily. I do.

Phoebe · 08-31-2009, 04:26 PM

JFrey, I'm scared of purse carry.
1) I fear purse snatchers
2) I fear setting it down somewhere and children or others getting into it

Purse carry would be an absolute last resort and I'd need to figure out if I could feel comfortable with it.

It's also a slow draw, possibly fumbly.

Maybe with a cross shoulder bag....

But it's not high on my list.

My work clothes are tailored, tend towards classic, but not super dressy -- more business casual. My pants rarely have sturdy or wide belt loops. Tailored or knit shirts. I rarely wear jeans. Some dresses and skirts.

In the winter, I am almost always in my leather jacket, which will help a bunch.

I think a camisole top may help in the summer, as an underlayer.

My shirts are rarely tucked in, but they tend to be body clinging.

Smart Carry works for some things.

I need a gun belt (jeez, could someone make one that won't make me look like I'm trying to dress like a man??!), and figure OWB and IWB holsters are basic, even if I can't wear them all the time.

I'm curious about a holster bra I saw, but haven't seen any reviews.

But my best guess is:
- one IWB holster
- one OWB holster
- underwraps by Galco
- Smart Carry

I hope those options get me through most things.

But my XD wasn't the best purchase as it is an awful big honkin' thing to haul around.

Phoebe · 08-31-2009, 04:30 PM

Just tried today's work clothes.

The grip prints like crazy.

In fact, the grip seems to be the #1 problem.

Today's clothes:
Business casual slacks - no belt loops
knit top, body hugging
'
Tried the Smart Carry. It's fine without the gun, but with? I definitely look like there's a party going on.

HA-Y-N 702 · 08-31-2009, 04:33 PM

Take a look at the 9mm Sig P6 (P225). Nicely priced at around $325, slim profile due to the single stack magazine (8 rounds), and it's a Sig! Contact Dr. Ron Cheney at Henderson Defense Industries, and see if they have any in stock. When they do, they sell out fast! The initial DA (double action) trigger pull of the P6 is much smoother than the DA trigger pull of the Kel-Tec, and the SA (single action) trigger is very nice and very accurate! I used to own a Kel-Tec, and currently own a P6, which is one of my CC guns. My main CC gun is a Glock G19, but when I want to keep the "profiling" down, I go to the P6. Another option to look at is the Walther PPS in 9mm. Slim profile in a POLYMER frame, vs the all-steel Sig. Choose wisely, and remember, be safe!

Kurt Gepke · 08-31-2009, 04:35 PM

Kayla,
If you get that Kel-Tec, it will conceal very well in your Smart Carry and I can show you how to modify your Smart Carry to accommodate the mouse gun.

I'll help you get into a pocket holster and customize it as well for under 20 bucks.

Lastly, I will qualify you at the range so you can add it to your permit.

Remember our conversation about the Kel-Tec P11 in 9mm and my problems and my opinion about that model? Well, I can't remember if you were looking at that model or the P3AT or P32. (The latter two being the smallest)

Let me know when you're ready to move on it and I'll help you as needed.

KG

.

Phoebe · 08-31-2009, 04:43 PM

Kurt, I'm looking at the P11. Please remind me of your opinion on it?

To me, it's not a fab solution. But it's cheap, (financially doable without having to save up), and darn small enough that I know if I can't carry my bigger gun, at least I won't walk out the door unarmed.

If you have another idea for an under $250 (presumably used) mouse gun, preferably in 9mm, I'm all mouse-ears.

7.62 · 08-31-2009, 05:33 PM

I just have to chime in, I carry a full size G-17, with night sights etc.. you should take the time to visit the gunshop on Decatur/Lake mead damn if I can remember the shops name, opposite from Carls JR behind the gas station, they have a wide assortment of IWB and OTWB holsters, no pressure, unload your gun and try everything.

I use the Galco summer comfort for CCW.

Just an opinion of course.

08-31-2009, 03:37 PM	#2
Facejackets Low Speed High Drag Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,227 Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	When I first started to CC, I realized I had a big problem too. I had to start buying shirts a size too big. I did find a good holster. My girlfriend bought me a Kholster and it works great. I am stoked because it fits my Glock 17, and my Glock 26, which rules because I don't have any cash to buy a new holster. You will have to learn how to dress around the gun. Getting a good gun belt will help with that ALOT. __________________ Certified GLOCK Armorer NRA Certified RSO USPSA Member

08-31-2009, 04:13 PM	#4
jfrey123 I aim to misbehave... Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sparks, NV Posts: 3,658 Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 3 Thread(s)	I'm not sure how this thread has almost 2,000 views and practically no replies... Weird. Anyway, you brought up your preference for 9mm, so I'm going to keep it there. I'm going to start with one question, and hope you don't take offence, but do you carry a purse? (Not implying "girly girl" here, just asking) If you carry a purse, you're in a world of luck. Seems to me that nearly every woman does have one of some sort and depending on the size of your purse, you could fit anything from the sub compacts you listed above to your fullsize XD9 on a daily basis, WITH RELOADS!!! It makes me jealous, since I can't seem to pull off the fanny pack thing. If you don't purse carry, depending on your build (again, no offence) will weigh heavily on your options. Ankle carry is 100% out, since most jeans on women are too tight. Waist carry, either IWB or OWB, will be difficult I would imagine because lots of female clothing is tight at a minimum, and often is bare mid-drift ()... Shoulder carry is difficult, you'd need some of the "carry clothes" you referenced earlier: vests, larger overshirts, jackets, etc. Might not be the most practical in the summer, and shoulder carry is more difficult on nature's more.... um... "gifted" women. Pocket carry is another option, but I find you need one of the micro 380's or a small airweight like the one I have to pull it off, also needing baggy/comfortable jeans and not the skin tight women's type. Regardless of the way you carry it, Rule #1 of a carry gun is carry it. This means it needs to be a gun you are well practiced with, confident with the operation of, and fits your carry needs size wise. For me personally with a little spare tire over the belt, this means I carry IWB. I carry a baby Glock, and generally need a "guy fit" t-shirt or polo for concealment. Carrying a gun with a forward cant help a little bit more. The Kel-Tec isn't a bad weapon, none of the weapons you listed are. If it fits your hand, is comfortable to shoot, and you enjoy, then by all means you should go for it. Never buy a gun that feels awkward in your hand, that feeling rarely goes away. Need more information about what sort of clothes you wear daily to help more, more detail on what makes what you call a shirt that "makes you feel fat". I tell everyone a gun on your hip is better than a gun at home, and I hope you find a way to carry daily. I do. __________________ Rock out with your Glock out.

08-31-2009, 04:33 PM	#7
HA-Y-N 702 Kanaka Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: P.C., HI Posts: 2,508 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Take a look at the 9mm Sig P6 (P225). Nicely priced at around $325, slim profile due to the single stack magazine (8 rounds), and it's a Sig! Contact Dr. Ron Cheney at Henderson Defense Industries, and see if they have any in stock. When they do, they sell out fast! The initial DA (double action) trigger pull of the P6 is much smoother than the DA trigger pull of the Kel-Tec, and the SA (single action) trigger is very nice and very accurate! I used to own a Kel-Tec, and currently own a P6, which is one of my CC guns. My main CC gun is a Glock G19, but when I want to keep the "profiling" down, I go to the P6. Another option to look at is the Walther PPS in 9mm. Slim profile in a POLYMER frame, vs the all-steel Sig. Choose wisely, and remember, be safe! __________________ DO NOT MISTAKE MY ALOHA FOR WEAKNESS!

08-31-2009, 04:35 PM	#8
Kurt Gepke digitspaw Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV. Posts: 642 Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Kayla, If you get that Kel-Tec, it will conceal very well in your Smart Carry and I can show you how to modify your Smart Carry to accommodate the mouse gun. I'll help you get into a pocket holster and customize it as well for under 20 bucks. Lastly, I will qualify you at the range so you can add it to your permit. Remember our conversation about the Kel-Tec P11 in 9mm and my problems and my opinion about that model? Well, I can't remember if you were looking at that model or the P3AT or P32. (The latter two being the smallest) Let me know when you're ready to move on it and I'll help you as needed. KG . __________________ I have a perfect body. It's in the trunk and starting to stink. NEVADA CCW INSTRUCTOR - UTAH CCW INSTRUCTOR - NRA Member/Instructor

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08-31-2009, 03:23 PM	#1
Phoebe Very Active Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 426 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Concealed carry Yes, it seems like it's endlessly discussed and as much as I read, I still end up somewhat befuddled when trying to figure out what options will work for me. I am a relatively small framed female. In the winter, I may be able to make accommodations for CC, but during the rest of the year, it may be much more difficult. I am assuming that I will need a "gun wardrobe", meaning, there will be days when I simply can't carry my XD9 -- probably a lot of days. I am assuming I will need something small for days when nothing else will work. I've fired the Kel-Tec, and in ten rounds, was not able to shoot it well. Though I'd guess practice may help. But the price and size make me think that if I had one, I'd definitely not leave the house without carrying _something_. And that makes me wonder about purchasing one. There is one for sale on the board here. And I've seen them on for sale elsewhere for a very affordable price point. In terms of "likelihood of never walking out the door unarmed", I've also looked at the Bersa Thunder -- but the price of .380 ammo freaks me out. And some people say it's junky, while others seem to love it. I'd rather stick to the 9mm platform. So, next I look at the Kahr. I can shoot that gun well. The size seems to be the perfect combo for absorbing recoil vs concealability. Though compared to the Kel-Tec, it's still bigger and I wonder if I could/would ALWAYS carry it? Plus, it is expensive. Even used Kahrs seem to be spendy. And, nearly every FTF I've had, has been with (two different) Kahrs. And that's not a situation I'd want to be in if I were really needing to defend myself. People's take on the reliability seems to vary. Since I love my XD so much, I've looked at the XD-SC but, so I have a hard time shooting that one well. Perhaps it's just practice. OTOH, I think I'd also be happier with a thinner grip, and since the SC is double stacked, it's kind of clunky. I can shoot the Glock 26 well, but again, I worry that the size/shape means I would be more likely to leave it at home. If money weren't a factor, the Kahr is probably the right set of compromises. But the Kel-Tec (IF I could learn to shoot it), is tiny enough that I'm sure I'd never leave home without it. I wouldn't be able to buy the Kahr anytime soon. I could buy the Kel-Tec. I think I'm talking myself into a Kel-Tec....while saving my money for a Kahr sometime next year. Once my CCW comes in, I'd like to carry in all places where I am legally able to do so. And these other choices all seem too tempting to leave at home. I don't know if there is a question in here. Mostly talking aloud. But, maybe the question is...do you think I could learn to shoot the snappy Kel-Tec well enough to qualify with it? That gun is pretty hard to handle. :-( Wow, this got long! So I tried to bold maker names to improve scannability. Off to Metro today to drop off my CCW app.

08-31-2009, 03:44 PM	#3
Phoebe Very Active Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 426 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I understand that in an ideal world, I'd dress around the gun. And sometimes, I may do just that. But some of my identity is in my appearance. If I have to wear clothing that makes me feel fat, ugly, masculine, guess what? The gun will be left at home. And if it's at home, it does me no good. It is hard enough to find attractive clothing without adding in new levels of difficulty. I may have mentioned elsethread, or maybe it was elseboard, but I would feel more victimized than I already do, if I had to wear clothing that made me not feel good. So, when possible, clothing may allow me to carry my XD9 and still feel like I look attractive. When not possible, I need an alternative other than "leave gun at home." And purse carry, scares me. I don't perceive that as an option for me. Too easy to set it down, people get into it or steal it. It just seems like a bad idea. If I'm going to carry, I want my firearm on my person. If I have a little alternative, like the Kel-Tec, there is no excuse to leave home without it, and very little clothing that couldn't handle it. (I think I've talked myself into the Kel-Tec and then maybe some time next year, I can buy a Kahr.) That Kel-Tec would be easy to hide. I'm going to see if I can borrow one again and figure out if I can improve my shooting with it.

08-31-2009, 04:26 PM	#5
Phoebe Very Active Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 426 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	JFrey, I'm scared of purse carry. 1) I fear purse snatchers 2) I fear setting it down somewhere and children or others getting into it Purse carry would be an absolute last resort and I'd need to figure out if I could feel comfortable with it. It's also a slow draw, possibly fumbly. Maybe with a cross shoulder bag.... But it's not high on my list. My work clothes are tailored, tend towards classic, but not super dressy -- more business casual. My pants rarely have sturdy or wide belt loops. Tailored or knit shirts. I rarely wear jeans. Some dresses and skirts. In the winter, I am almost always in my leather jacket, which will help a bunch. I think a camisole top may help in the summer, as an underlayer. My shirts are rarely tucked in, but they tend to be body clinging. Smart Carry works for some things. I need a gun belt (jeez, could someone make one that won't make me look like I'm trying to dress like a man??!), and figure OWB and IWB holsters are basic, even if I can't wear them all the time. I'm curious about a holster bra I saw, but haven't seen any reviews. But my best guess is: - one IWB holster - one OWB holster - underwraps by Galco - Smart Carry I hope those options get me through most things. But my XD wasn't the best purchase as it is an awful big honkin' thing to haul around.

08-31-2009, 04:30 PM	#6
Phoebe Very Active Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 426 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Just tried today's work clothes. The grip prints like crazy. In fact, the grip seems to be the #1 problem. Today's clothes: Business casual slacks - no belt loops knit top, body hugging ' Tried the Smart Carry. It's fine without the gun, but with? I definitely look like there's a party going on.

08-31-2009, 04:43 PM	#9
Phoebe Very Active Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 426 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Kurt, I'm looking at the P11. Please remind me of your opinion on it? To me, it's not a fab solution. But it's cheap, (financially doable without having to save up), and darn small enough that I know if I can't carry my bigger gun, at least I won't walk out the door unarmed. If you have another idea for an under $250 (presumably used) mouse gun, preferably in 9mm, I'm all mouse-ears.

08-31-2009, 05:33 PM	#10
7.62 Obsessed Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The Uzi Triangle, Las Vegas Posts: 1,002 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I just have to chime in, I carry a full size G-17, with night sights etc.. you should take the time to visit the gunshop on Decatur/Lake mead damn if I can remember the shops name, opposite from Carls JR behind the gas station, they have a wide assortment of IWB and OTWB holsters, no pressure, unload your gun and try everything. I use the Galco summer comfort for CCW. Just an opinion of course.