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Old 12-07-2017, 02:28 AM   #21
Ron_O
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FYI the Senate Judiciary hearing on Fix NICS and Firearms Regulations is on again right now. Should run a few more hours.

C-Span 2 this time.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:37 AM   #22
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Hmm, looks like H.R. 38 passed, but I'm a little confused.

From today's NRA-ILA update on H.R. 38...

Quote:
The bill, H.R. 38, ensures that those Americans who can legally carry a concealed firearm in one state will legally be able to do so in every other state.
Woa hold on a sec!

Here's a blurp from the NRA-ILA's email on Monday, just two days ago...

Quote:
H.R. 38 DOES NOT:

Allow prohibited persons to carry firearms;
Create a federal licensing or registration system;
Establish national standards for concealed carry; or
Override state laws governing the time, place and manner of carrying concealed.
I'm confused.

If this bill does NOT override anti-gun state laws, then that means I will NOT be able to carry in, say, California or New York or Hawaii, etc. Because those anti-gun states have very strict "laws governing the time, place and manner of carrying concealed." WTF?!

I thought that was the whole purpose of passing this law, so that lawful citizens could at least carry concealed and not ever get hassled because they have undergone the arduous process of securing a legal permit from their home state.

If this bill does NOT override anti-gun state laws, then what exactly have we gained with its passage??? Perhaps a wider avenue to sue said anti-gun state if we are arrested? How much will THAT cost???
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:58 AM   #23
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I believe ONE EXAMPLE of what they are trying to say would be in a situation of signage prohibiting guns.

In many states it does not carry force of law like NevadA, for private businesses. Worst that can happen is trespass charge.

In some states, signage can prohibit carry in private business. And it has force of law. And a more serious arrest charge can happen

John q is still responsible for knowing.

Also, open carry is not permitted in some states. Florida , last I heard, doesn't permit open carry. And your shirt riding up and exposing the firearm is illegal.

This reciprocity will not cover these situations.

So cali police will have to honor your permit, but if you carry wrong you can be punished. At least that's how I understand.

EDIT for example, until recently passed laws, cali allowed ccw to carry in schools. The thought of May issue had them change this. Reciprocity would have been another reason for their change.

EDIT 2 I think you must also comply with mag cap laws too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulleteater View Post
Hmm, looks like H.R. 38 passed, but I'm a little confused.

From today's NRA-ILA update on H.R. 38...



Woa hold on a sec!

Here's a blurp from the NRA-ILA's email on Monday, just two days ago...



I'm confused.

If this bill does NOT override anti-gun state laws, then that means I will NOT be able to carry in, say, California or New York or Hawaii, etc. Because those anti-gun states have very strict "laws governing the time, place and manner of carrying concealed." WTF?!

I thought that was the whole purpose of passing this law, so that lawful citizens could at least carry concealed and not ever get hassled because they have undergone the arduous process of securing a legal permit from their home state.

If this bill does NOT override anti-gun state laws, then what exactly have we gained with its passage??? Perhaps a wider avenue to sue said anti-gun state if we are arrested? How much will THAT cost???
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:00 AM   #24
FightForYourRight(s)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulleteater View Post
Hmm, looks like H.R. 38 passed, but I'm a little confused.

From today's NRA-ILA update on H.R. 38...



Woa hold on a sec!

Here's a blurp from the NRA-ILA's email on Monday, just two days ago...



I'm confused.

If this bill does NOT override anti-gun state laws, then that means I will NOT be able to carry in, say, California or New York or Hawaii, etc. Because those anti-gun states have very strict "laws governing the time, place and manner of carrying concealed." WTF?!

I thought that was the whole purpose of passing this law, so that lawful citizens could at least carry concealed and not ever get hassled because they have undergone the arduous process of securing a legal permit from their home state.

If this bill does NOT override anti-gun state laws, then what exactly have we gained with its passage??? Perhaps a wider avenue to sue said anti-gun state if we are arrested? How much will THAT cost???
We have gained nothing, and have lost even more freedoms as a result of the flawed NICS bill that was combined with it. This is a significant net LOSS, not a net gain, and I sincerelt hope the senate shuts it down.

I am so completely sick and tired of the republicans compromising on **** just to garner democrat support! All it does is harm us in the long run.

Seven years from now(or less), when Trump is gone and the democrats inevitably regain control, they will repeal the concealed carry reciprocity portion of this, yet keep or even further bolster the NICS portion of the bill, and we will be completely screwed.

DO NOT SUPPORT ANY LEGISLATION THAT TAKES AWAY RIGHTS UNDER THE GUISE OF ALLEGEDLY ADDING OTHERS. IT IS ALWAYS A SCAM.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:24 AM   #25
Bart Carter
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You need to understand the bill, not panic.

From TX_Lawyer on the Truth ABout Guns:

Quote:
... 926D(e) defines a handgun to include any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine. This means that magazine capacity limits are preempted for handguns covered by the bill. Also, you wont have to comply with weird laws about ammo when you carry it in your magazine. Ive heard hollowpoints are illegal in New Jersey. You could carry hollow points in your magazine in New Jersey under this bill.
Again, let's not give up yet.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:48 AM   #26
pick_six
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You may be right on that part. Or more correctly the lawyer you quote. Interesting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Carter View Post
You need to understand the bill, not panic.

From TX_Lawyer on the Truth ABout Guns:



Again, let's not give up yet.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:13 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Carter View Post
You need to understand the bill, not panic.

From TX_Lawyer on the Truth ABout Guns:



Again, let's not give up yet.
I'm more concerned about the background check portion that was quietly rolled into it that is the real disaster and step backward.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:25 AM   #28
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@pick_six has pretty much nailed it on restrictions.

Basically your CCW is a substitute for a CCW issued in the state that you're visiting. Whatever restrictions that are on THEIR CCW will apply to you as an 'equal' CCW holder who's visiting them. YOUR CCW rules don't apply in their states, THEIRS do.

Some states don't allow a right turn on a red light (driving). When you're in that state you have to observe that law rather than simply turning as you do at home, even though you're a licensed driver. However if heavy window tinting is allowed in your state then I think if they cited you for it you'd be in the clear. I think that's how they're viewing high capacity magazines in states that limit you to 8.

I did hear two different interpretations of mag restrictions however. One Congressman said that if a state limits a mag to 8 or 10 rounds then you must ABIDE by that restriction.

Others have said that anything that's legal for the gun is legal in any state. That'll need clarification if or when the law is finalized.

The Fix NICS portion is troubling at best. Why those wimps didn't separate the two, shows their intent.

One Senator started grandstanding about how semi-autos with large mags have no place in self defense or 'shooting ducks and deer' and the Founders would have never approved (referencing the Texas church shooting). Crickets for a response and the misinformation; no mention of keeping a tyrannical government in check, not from other Senators or witnesses.

The bump stock portion of the Senate hearing was truly distressing. Feinstein has drafted a proposed regulation directed toward bump stocks. Essentially what it says is that if you do ANYTHING that increases the firing speed of a semi-auto then it'll be illegal.

The definition is so broad that it could include trigger mods, cleaning and oiling your weapon, taking Advil, or anything similar, as argued by one of the attorneys. This will be a long road to travel down before anything's resolved.

Oh, and one last thing. There are more than a dozen permitless carry states in which NO CCW is needed. According to past reports those people will need ONLY their drivers license to carry concealed in other states! I haven't heard any change or clarification on that so I guess it remains to be seen. That may be why the sponsor has been referring to the Bill as 'Constitutional Carry'. Also, if this is true, you can see a rapid progression to members of other states crying for similar rights, since residents of other states are already doing permitless carry in their own states.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:18 PM   #29
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Default H.R. 38 Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017

I think the CCW bill is good as is. I don't have a problem being forced to recognize state laws on restricted areas or gun requirements. As a good baby step, just being able to travel with a gun on my hip is a win. We're sure to see states try and pass harsher restrictions to try and dissuade out of state guys, which will make for some good court cases to smash the more absurd laws.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FightForYourRight(s) View Post
I'm more concerned about the background check portion that was quietly rolled into it that is the real disaster and step backward.

I'm not. It doesn't have the teeth to add anybody to the NICS who shouldn't be added already. We get to turn it around and claim republicans helped fix the error that let the Texas shooter obtain a weapon legally. Plus, by the time the funding gets diluted down to all 50 states plus the Federal admins, it really won't amount to much in extra reporting ability.

Our rallying cry to "enforce existing laws before more gun control" is being tested with this Fix NICS bill. They want a few more bucks to enforce an existing law, I saw let them have it and claim a win knowing it won't affect any of the good guys.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:04 PM   #30
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As I have read this, it appears that this bill does essentially the same as does H.R. 218 the 50 state CCW law for law enforcement. I have my H.R. 218 CCW, and I can carry in places such as California, BUT I must abide by their CCW regulations. As such, when I do carry in California, I carry a pistol with a magazine capacity of ten rounds or less. Yes it's a hassle, but I would rather be able to carry a firearm with only a ten rounds capacity, versus no firearm at all.

I'm planning a 30 days cross country motorcycle trip next year. Part of the planning for this trip, is knowing the CCW laws in each of the states I will be riding through. So far New Jersey has been the only state which will cause me problems, due to their no hollow point ammunition restriction. My solution, I'm riding around New Jersey. It adds one more day to my trip, but who wants to drive through New Jersey anyway?? (Just kidding former residents of N.J.)

Would I much rather the bill allow us to carry what we want when we want, sure I would. But as I have said, I would rather be able to carry a concealed firearm with less than ten rounds, versus NO firearm at all.
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