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Old 01-02-2018, 06:19 PM   #1
donthreetens
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Default Odd Question about ID for fierarm purchas

This is odd one ----

Buddy who is now 60 years of age, decided to get his Drivers License after 15 years of not having one.

His process is he now has a PERMIT to drive, which according to the DMV is the new card with the Star on it and is good to go as an officel ID card ----

Can he use this Permit for ID to purchase a firearm
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:33 PM   #2
zimzim
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I don't see why not, its an official document that identifies him. The privilege to drive doesn't determine if it can be accepted or not.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:41 PM   #3
doz
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You can purchase a firearm with just an ID card from the DMV. You can purchase a firearm with a Passport which gives you no privilege to drive.

That said, you seem to have a nice stash you are selling off. Why the hell isn't he buying from you?
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:46 PM   #4
donthreetens
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He is a Glock guy---
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:27 AM   #5
Thelittlegreenguy
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At most the FFL may want something like a powerbill etc to prove residence, to go along with his permit, when I worked at a gunshop here in AZ, we have a lot of snowbirds and dual residents with Ca., we required proof of residency with any state ID just to cover our asses, that way if the customer took a weapon we sold with them to either Ca. or Canada ( yes we had some do that ) we could show ATF we did our due diligence to make sure they were legal residents of AZ... Never underestimate the stupidity of people lol intentional or not
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:21 AM   #6
PondScum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelittlegreenguy View Post
At most the FFL may want something like a powerbill etc to prove residence, to go along with his permit, when I worked at a gunshop here in AZ, we have a lot of snowbirds and dual residents with Ca., we required proof of residency with any state ID just to cover our asses, that way if the customer took a weapon we sold with them to either Ca. or Canada ( yes we had some do that ) we could show ATF we did our due diligence to make sure they were legal residents of AZ... Never underestimate the stupidity of people lol intentional or not
Utility bill isn't going to cut it for proving residency. ATF is very clear that the document proving residency has to be a GOVERNMENT ISSUED DOCUMENT. Not only that, most FFLs here are going to err on the side of caution, and not deal with anyone who doesn't have a Nevada ID, even though ATF allows identity and residency to be proven with a combination of documents. My guess is the FFL actually did know what documents were required, and the utility bill was "insurance" on top of the documents required by the ATF.

Question 18.b on a 4473 states "Supplemental Government Issued Documentation (if identification document does not show current residence address)". I really doubt an FFL would think a utility bill satisfies this requirement.

United States Code 922(t(1)(C):

Quote:
Licensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy the identification document requirements of the Brady Act. The required valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of the transferee may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee's residence address.
ATF Ruling 2001-5:

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It is ATF's position that a combination of documents may be used to satisfy the Brady Act's requirement for an identification document. The prospective transferee must present at least one valid document that meets the statutory definition of an identification document; i.e., it must bear the transferee's name and photograph, it must have been issued by a governmental entity, and it must be of a type intended or commonly accepted for identification purposes. ATF recognizes, however, that some valid government-issued identification documents do not include the bearer's current residence address. Such an identification document may be supplemented with another valid government-issued document that contains the necessary information.

Thus, for example, a licensee may accept a valid driver's license that accurately reflects the purchaser's name, date of birth, and photograph, along with a vehicle registration issued by the State indicating the transferee's current address. Licensees should note that if the law of the State that issued the driver's license provides that the driver's license is invalid due to any reason (i.e., the license is expired or is no longer valid due to an unreported change of address), then the driver's license may not be used for identification purposes under the Brady Act. If a licensee has reasonable cause to question the validity of an identification document, he or she should not proceed with the transfer until those questions can be resolved.

The licensee must record on the Form 4473 the type of identification document(s) presented by the transferee, including any document number. Examples of documents that may be accepted to supplement information on a driver's license or other identification document include a vehicle registration, a recreation identification card, a fishing or hunting license, a voter identification card, or a tax bill. However, the document in question must be valid and must have been issued by a government agency.
Note that this is a non-exhaustive list of acceptable documents. But you may as well treat it as the complete list, since no FFL is going to risk their license on their guess as to whether the ATF would find a document not on this list acceptable or not.
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelittlegreenguy View Post
At most the FFL may want something like a powerbill etc to prove residence, to go along with his permit, when I worked at a gunshop here in AZ, we have a lot of snowbirds and dual residents with Ca., we required proof of residency with any state ID just to cover our asses, that way if the customer took a weapon we sold with them to either Ca. or Canada ( yes we had some do that ) we could show ATF we did our due diligence to make sure they were legal residents of AZ... Never underestimate the stupidity of people lol intentional or not
The only place I bought a gun at here that wanted other proof where I lived was Walmart but that was just their policy. I think that was just after they got in allot of trouble for selling guns without doing the proper paperwork.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:37 PM   #8
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Default Odd Question about ID for fierarm purchas

Yes.


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