Nevada Shooters

Go Back   Nevada Shooters > Main Room > Our Right to Keep and Bear Arms

Notices

Our Right to Keep and Bear Arms The place to discuss all gun rights issues, pro-gun/anti-gun legislation and general Second Amendment topics. All other topics will be locked.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-16-2018, 01:31 AM   #121
SG1
lets do it.
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
People who don't believe the same as you should not be entitled to the same rights as you?

It is pretty obvious that you don't actually understand this whole liberty thing.
No, I will make my case so no one is confused as to what my views are, ok?

I do not believe in minting/creating voters who are hostile to our rights/freedoms and who vote 70 plus percent for the party that is openly hostile towards our rights.

If we have the means to preventing them from casting ballots against us, seeing full well what the results have been (leftist winning, our rights being violated or flat out stripped away via legislation, we have every right to do so as such actions are self defensive in nature.

Democracy is not a suicide pact.
SG1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 02:10 AM   #122
SG1
lets do it.
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightForYourRight(s) View Post
Can't say it any better than that, folks. Sadly, SG1 will never understand. I'd simply write him off as the lost cause that he is when it comes to this, but the scarier thing is that there are many, many more like him.
Not sure how not allowing the minting of enemy voters, which will result in more dems winning office, which will mean more attack at the 2nd Amendment makes me a "lost cause".

Tell me is wanting to preventing amnesty, or mass immigration which does increase the voting base of the Democratic party make me a "lost cause" as well?

Elections have Consequence, in order to avoid preventable outcomes, it does not harm us to ensure our side has the upper hand, in every election in this nation on the state level (and they ALL are on the state level) a majority wins.

Nothing wrong with keeping our majorities intact and undermining that of the enemies as they do the the same only via unhanded tactics (voter fraud, counting immigrants in the census, pushing for mass immigration/amnesty, felons voting, etc). The left lost the battle of ideas so they see their way of winning as stuffing the nation with as many welfare voters as possible, their even say so.http://dailycaller.com/2018/01/08/le...toral-success/

So if we starve them of the voters they need to create a permanent majority we ensure we do not lose by default.

Factoring in shifting the Overton Window to the right, trimming the party in the primaries of the "internationalist", "Neo Con", and "Cuckservative " from the party we have the means to regain freedoms last, we can only do that if we elect the right people to office, and that will not happen if we are out numbered at the polls because we allowed the enemy to stack it to the point we can not win.

Freedom like all things of value has to be protected, and yes that means protecting it from people who do not value it and based on their voting habits, some groups do not, will not value it, and seek to vote it away for any number of idiot reasons (emotionalism, muh feels, revenge, "free stuff", etc. Not allowing them to do so is entirely moral just so much as keeping a thief out out of your house is.
SG1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 02:47 AM   #123
Tony Shelton
Obsessed Member
 
Tony Shelton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Las Vegas NV
Posts: 1,845
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SG1 View Post
No, I will make my case so no one is confused as to what my views are, ok?

I do not believe in minting/creating voters who are hostile to our rights/freedoms and who vote 70 plus percent for the party that is openly hostile towards our rights.

If we have the means to preventing them from casting ballots against us, seeing full well what the results have been (leftist winning, our rights being violated or flat out stripped away via legislation, we have every right to do so as such actions are self defensive in nature.

Democracy is not a suicide pact.
We can't forget about the Pendulum effect.

One day it will be you or I who are considered the "hostile" ones.

In the 1500's one decade the Catholics were killing the Protestants, and the next the Protestants were killing the Catholics. All it took was a change from Queen Mary to Queen Elizabeth and the oppressor became the oppressed.

Under the current laws there is not likely a single founding father that would have been able to vote, much less hold office, after the Revolutionary war. The current system fails to take into account criminal history, repentance, or the finality of a paid debt.

Regarding voter suppression here is a little bit from history.

Are you black? Are you in debt or jobless? Are you a woman? Are you Chinese? Would you fail a reading test? Did you marry a foreigner? Are you Jewish? Hispanic? Japanese? Native American?

If you answered yes to any of those questions, you too, were considered "hostile" and not deserving of a part in the American political process.

Beware of the Pendulum.


http://lwvne.typepad.com/files/lb-38...uppression.pdf
__________________
It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. - Samuel Adams
Tony Shelton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 03:13 AM   #124
Ron_O
Obsessed Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Gun Land USA
Posts: 1,549
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SG1 View Post
No, I will make my case so no one is confused as to what my views are, ok?

I do not believe in minting/creating voters who are hostile to our rights/freedoms and who vote 70 plus percent for the party that is openly hostile towards our rights.

If we have the means to preventing them from casting ballots against us, seeing full well what the results have been (leftist winning, our rights being violated or flat out stripped away via legislation, we have every right to do so as such actions are self defensive in nature.

Democracy is not a suicide pact.
Let me once again put this in the simplest of terms for others who may not understand why we oppose your angle of attack.

Your argument states 'If we have the means...'. What we are all making clear is that your MEANS is unconstitutional. Yet you couldn't give a damn because for you it's about winning.

Well, newsflash. The 'means' could also entail political assassinations of all of your perceived enemies. If you're going to disregard the law and Constitution to achieve your goals, then you might as well find a way to justify your ultimate goal which is to eliminate the other side.

From a theoretical standpoint, your approach is no different than taking it to the ultimate level and doing everything in your power to wipe out those with whom you disagree.

You're taking an 'end justifies the means' approach and have about as much regard for the Constitution as every liberal judge in the nation. You continue to repeat the same thing again and again. Repeating it doesn't change any minds or in any way justify your outlook. It just shows how deeply you refuse to respect and honor the rights of others, and disrespect the Constitution itself.

Without the Constitution, what else are we left with? ANARCHY. Eliminate the Constitution and your arguments begin to become valid. I applaud your desire to WIN.

We are NOT losing this war. The leftist media is only trying to present the IMAGE of us being behind. Apparently too many people have bought into that. The public gets what's going on, that's why Trump is POTUS. We have to win the battles in the media, an extremely important aspect of why we as a group need to find a singular voice to represent the best interests of gun owners in Nevada.

Remember my example of leftists who chained themselves to the remote chain link gates of a nuclear facility in the 70's? They single handedly changed the course of nuclear power plants in the USA. That was the spark that spurred the bonfire.

How about if armed gunmen started chaining themselves to strategic facilities across the USA? Think about it. The reason the Bundy events gained national and worldwide attention was because of the weapons. What we can't achieve in forums and social media is something we CAN achieve by using the stunts of the left.

But as it applies to felons, their rights are just as valid as yours and mine, and we have to present ourselves as CHAMPIONS of the Constitution, not the enemies.
Ron_O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 03:19 AM   #125
SG1
lets do it.
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shelton View Post
We can't forget about the Pendulum effect.

One day it will be you or I who are considered the "hostile" ones.
The left will claim everything we are/do makes us an enemy of Liberty, and in their own sick minds, they really do believe it, that is why rendering them impotent at the ballot box is the most effective means (along with take back education) to limit the damage they can do.

Quote:
In the 1500's one decade the Catholics were killing the Protestants, and the next the Protestants were killing the Catholics. All it took was a change from Queen Mary to Queen Elizabeth and the oppressor became the oppressed.

Under the current laws there is not likely a single founding father that would have been able to vote, much less hold office, after the Revolutionary war. The current system fails to take into account criminal history, repentance, or the finality of a paid debt.
That is not a flaw, its a feature.




Quote:
Regarding voter suppression here is a little bit from history.

Are you black? Are you in debt or jobless? Are you a woman? Are you Chinese? Would you fail a reading test? Did you marry a foreigner? Are you Jewish? Hispanic? Japanese? Native American?

If you answered yes to any of those questions, you too, were considered "hostile" and not deserving of a part in the American political process.

Beware of the Pendulum.

Would you like to see the Voting habits of those groups?

Do you want people who failed a reading test voting? How can an illiterate person make any kind of an educated vote?

Should people who do not speak English be allowed to vote? Oh wait they do, and I can promise you they vote lock, stock, and ****ing barrel against our rights.

And you think preventing this is a bad thing?
Seeing the outcome, the loss of freedoms, property rights, etc do you think maybe their was a correlation between what happened and mass suffrage?


There is a reason why Democrats support allowing everyone to vote, with as few barriers, costs, delays, wait times, etc, its because it grows their base, gives them more power.

Full stop.

Think about that, you are giving the enemy what they want, why help them?
SG1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 03:43 AM   #126
FightForYourRight(s)
Nevada ftw
 
FightForYourRight(s)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Washoe Valley, NV
Posts: 766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_O View Post
Let me once again put this in the simplest of terms for others who may not understand why we oppose your angle of attack.

Your argument states 'If we have the means...'. What we are all making clear is that your MEANS is unconstitutional. Yet you couldn't give a damn because for you it's about winning.

Well, newsflash. The 'means' could also entail political assassinations of all of your perceived enemies. If you're going to disregard the law and Constitution to achieve your goals, then you might as well find a way to justify your ultimate goal which is to eliminate the other side.

From a theoretical standpoint, your approach is no different than taking it to the ultimate level and doing everything in your power to wipe out those with whom you disagree.

You're taking an 'end justifies the means' approach and have about as much regard for the Constitution as every liberal judge in the nation. You continue to repeat the same thing again and again. Repeating it doesn't change any minds or in any way justify your outlook. It just shows how deeply you refuse to respect and honor the rights of others, and disrespect the Constitution itself.

Without the Constitution, what else are we left with? ANARCHY. Eliminate the Constitution and your arguments begin to become valid.
Outstanding!

If this doesn't make things absolutely crystal clear, nothing will.
FightForYourRight(s) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 04:26 AM   #127
SG1
lets do it.
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_O View Post
Let me once again put this in the simplest of terms for others who may not understand why we oppose your angle of attack.

Your argument states 'If we have the means...'. What we are all making clear is that your MEANS is unconstitutional. Yet you couldn't give a damn because for you it's about winning.
No, its about protecting our rights. In order to do that, we have to win elections, which we can not do if we are out numbered at the polls 5-1.



Quote:
Well, newsflash. The 'means' could also entail political assassinations of all of your perceived enemies. If you're going to disregard the law and Constitution to achieve your goals, then you might as well find a way to justify your ultimate goal which is to eliminate the other side.

The left would gladly do so if they think they could get away with it, in fact they have, remember the Congressional baseball shooting?

The other side is a threat, to our rights, values, property, county, nation, future...Are you really going to stand here and claim otherwise?

They ignore every law, rule, court ruling, reg, in the book and we are the bad guys for not standing around and taking their abuse anymore?

I seek to eliminate their means to harm us via the ballot box.

They select the ballot box method as it gives them their appearance of legitimacy and as they seek to have the government do everything for them(some how the idea of going out and mugging armed tax payers seems very tastefulness when its the supports doing it rather then the IRS agents they gladly career on from the sidelines) as the left is largely incompetent, cowardly, and if they tried to implement their agenda by force (without the state under their control) they would get shut down by the state or the citizenry.

The difference is very stark, they want everything, they want total power, and are more then willing to destroy everything to obtain it, they would rather rule among a nation wide 3rd world slum rather then be "unequal" in a "unjust" 1st world nation. These people are NEVER satisfied, so why bother trying to satiate them?

I seek to disarm them and prevent them from being able to harm our rights. Nothing more.

I do not seek to make their lives needless worth, poorer, or to end them. The total opposite is true of them in other nations and indeed this one.

Do they site around and worry about violating our rights when they have total power in a given area? Christ no they do not.

Do they worry about property rights? No.

Do they worry about gun rights? LOL, nope!

Do they worry about the quality of life for tax paying Americans? Nah, they are more worried about the welfare voters they just imported and call you names for not wanting to pay more in taxes for their newest voting buying scam.

Case in point

How many leftists are "Oppressed" in NV?

Now compare that number (likely zero) to the number of Freedom loving Americans living in say CA, notice the difference?

Where leftists rule, they ruin, they strip people of their rights sighting any number of non reasons but the damage is done the same as they have rigged the ballot box to ensure they are never voted out of power.

Think of all the Gun Owners in CA who living under the number ending burden of new regs, never mind those who are in prison because of some non issue like the bullet bottom or what ever new feel good law they have enacted while MS-13 scum bags are running around, and are protected by the state...And I and those like me are "Bad Guys" for wanting to prevent this?

Ron, dube...I think you really need to change your premises


Quote:
From a theoretical standpoint, your approach is no different than taking it to the ultimate level and doing everything in your power to wipe out those with whom you disagree.
No, it is different, we are not using force against them. If they want their agenda to be implemented, they can, they just have to convince people, which is does not happen all that much, so they just seek to flood it with useful idiot voters. If you think other wise look at what they do in in NY/NJ/CA, etc.



Quote:
You're taking an 'end justifies the means' approach and have about as much regard for the Constitution as every liberal judge in the nation. You continue to repeat the same thing again and again. Repeating it doesn't change any minds or in any way justify your outlook. It just shows how deeply you refuse to respect and honor the rights of others, and disrespect the Constitution itself.


Their end gal is to destroy the Constitution, period, mine is to save it. The fact you can not see the difference is beyond me.

I refuse to respect and honor my enemies, and seek to deny them the means to harm everything I care about. That is what people across the ages have called "normal".



Quote:
Without the Constitution, what else are we left with? ANARCHY. Eliminate the Constitution and your arguments begin to become valid. I applaud your desire to WIN.

And how is preventing ex-felons from being able to vote for Constitution destroying candidates Anarchy? Is allowing them to do so not complacency for anarchy?


Quote:
We are NOT losing this war. The leftist media is only trying to present the IMAGE of us being behind. Apparently too many people have bought into that. The public gets what's going on, that's why Trump is POTUS. We have to win the battles in the media, an extremely important aspect of why we as a group need to find a singular voice to represent the best interests of gun owners in Nevada.

Never said we were, then again, how does minting new enemies voters do anything to better our cause? It needless makes things harder for no reason.


I do believe the MSM dying is only a good thing forward.

Quote:
Remember my example of leftists who chained themselves to the remote chain link gates of a nuclear facility in the 70's? They single handedly changed the course of nuclear power plants in the USA. That was the spark that spurred the bonfire.

Really? It has NOTHING do to with 3 Mile Island and the media spreading lies?



Quote:
How about if armed gunmen started chaining themselves to strategic facilities across the USA? Think about it. The reason the Bundy events gained national and worldwide attention was because of the weapons. What we can't achieve in forums and social media is something we CAN achieve by using the stunts of the left.
It also gained attention in thanks to the Web/Alt media sites (Infowars/Alex Jones) but yeah.

Once again not sure how adding large number of enemy voters is going to help us at the polls.







Quote:
But as it applies to felons, their rights are just as valid as yours and mine, and we have to present ourselves as CHAMPIONS of the Constitution, not the enemies.
Gun rights? Yes
Voting Privileges? No.


You are still not answering the question, how does creating more people who will vote for the enemies of the Constitution do anything else but help them and harm us?

You still have not explained this away.
SG1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 05:01 AM   #128
FightForYourRight(s)
Nevada ftw
 
FightForYourRight(s)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Washoe Valley, NV
Posts: 766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SG1
still not answering the question, how does creating more people who will vote for the enemies of the Constitution do anything else but help them and harm us?

You still have not explained this away.
Yes, he most certainly has, as have I and others. The fact that you cannot see how your arguments are Stalinesque is beyond me.

You think you're saving the constitution by violating it? Would you stand at a podium in front of a large crowd of people in public and say with a straight face that you believe the constitution can be saved by violating it?

You'd get about the same reaction to that as EJ Smith would have gotten had he told everyone in third class to jump overboard to save the Titanic from sinking.

The problem isn't the third class passengers on the ship, it's the gigantic ****ing hole in the hull. Why did that hole get there in the first place? Because a corrupt, power hungry J. Bruce Ismay commanded the captain to sail at full steam through a known ice field. A great analogy for our disastrous government: A businessman corrupted by power and greed, after nothing more than personal gain and pride, recklessly throwing caution to the wind, and the majority of the passengers on the ship paid the price for his foolishness.

Throwing the passengers overboard to try to save the ship is no more useful than telling US citizens they cannot vote. Neither of those actions solves the real problem, but only harms those thrown overboard. The ship will sink regardless, no matter who is thrown overboard. The prudent action is to make sure you don't hit the iceberg in the first place.
FightForYourRight(s) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 05:06 AM   #129
Idaho Shooter
uber Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: NW Las Vegas
Posts: 397
Default

Felons should have never lost their right to vote. That is what you’re not understanding. “Enemies” are not being created, men and women who served their time should have every and any right that I, or Tony, or Ron have.
Idaho Shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:35 AM.




2nd Amendment Gun Shop CrossBreed Holsters
New Frontier Armory Fight Focused Concepts
Wild West Guns
Ammo Supply Warehouse The Range 702
Netgirl Enterprises Extreme Ventures
Bite the Bullet


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.