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Old 04-20-2017, 08:46 PM   #1
Luxom
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Default Mystery Rifle, anybody know what this is?

One of my close friends had his grandfather pass away recently, and this was left to him.
Unfortunately nobody in the family really knows anything about it other than his grandfather used to hunt with it. There were about a half dozen different types of ammo in a box with it. From 7.62x54R (This obviously isn't a Mosin) to 7mm magnum.
Whatever it is, it appears to have been sporterized to some degree as can be seen in the stock, and it has a jeweled bolt.
These are about the best pictures I can get with my junky phone camera.
The S/N on the side reads 97900 and has a symbol that looks almost like a three leaf clover. (basically three semi circles around a central complete circle)
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:13 PM   #2
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Bigger, better pics would help, especially of the right side.

Is it a bolt-action or autoloader?

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Old 04-20-2017, 10:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbogo View Post
Bigger, better pics would help, especially of the right side.

Is it a bolt-action or autoloader?

mbogo
This plus pictures on the bolt side. Just a guess at this point but maybe some kind of Spanish 7mm mauser. Fairly common sporterized rifle but like I said just a guess. Can you narrow down the bore size? 7mm 30cal or 8mm?
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:58 PM   #4
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Can't clearly see the rear end of the bolt, but if the cocking knob is round with a slight finger width groove in it as it appears to be, I'd say it was an Arisaka, can't see it clearly enough to be sure , and to identify it as either a Type 38 or Type 99.

The type 38 was chambered for the 6.5x50mm SR round, and the 99 for the 7.7x58mm round.

Cast the chamber with Cerro-safe to be certain what it is chambered for, a lot of these bring backs got rechambered to some standard and some wildcat cartridges after the war.

That symbol you describe sounds like the symbol for the Kokura arsenal , and was used there from 1935 to 1945.

The bolt release on the left side rear of the receiver sure does look like a Arisaka, the bolt has been bent down though to accommodate the scope.

That blond wood two piece stock looks exactly like the ones on Type 99's and 38's as well.

So I am gonna hazard a guess that it IS an Arisaka.
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Just because a complaint was never filed doesn't mean a defective parachute was never made.
I've been to three world's fairs, two rodeos and a goat roping contest, but I've never seen the likes of the stuff that goes on around here before!

Last edited by NYECOGunsmith; 04-20-2017 at 11:08 PM. Reason: Added info after I got a better look at the pics.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:57 AM   #5
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I was also actually kind of leaning towards an Arisaka because that symbol looked specifically japanese to me for some reason. (Simple artistic design)
Everything else had me kind of stumped though because so much has been changed on it.
I had told him it looked like some sort of old MilSurp gun and I knew that with the modifications done (Specifically the bolt) that it was probably re-chambered. I wanted a baseline to kind of go off of though.
I have no idea how to cast the chamber and have never heard of Cerro-safe before. If we were to bring the rifle up to you in Pahrump would that be something you could help us out with Steve?

Here's a couple more pictures for those asking.

@mooman
I thought about trying a few different rounds to see what would fit, but then I thought to myself "I don't know the safety and condition of this rifle. For all I know I could try to chamber a round and slam fire the thing off half out of battery or something" and so I didn't. I knew somebody here like NYCO would have some sort of better way to go about it. I also had a feeling that it would involve some knowledge that I lack and of coarse the good ol' gunsmith that he is certainly did have the answer and it certainly IS something that I know nothing about. lol
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:35 AM   #6
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Yup, that's an Arisaka, and it looks like it is a butchered type 99 to my eye. Could be a type 44 carbine though, only the bore will tell you which it is for sure at this point. Type 99 is the 7.7x58mm cartridge, type 44 carbine uses the 6.5x50mm SR cartridge like the type 38 uses.

The bolt has been cut off, re welded and reshaped, someone has installed what looks like some form of safety on the right hand side of the bolt at the rear, I've seen that once or twice before, when they didn't want to use the striker head (the round knob at the rear of the bolt, with all the radial lines engraved into it) as the safety , which is what it was intended for.

If it is a Type 99, they have also altered the bolt striker knob to look more like the type 38 and type 44 knobs, as the 99 had a finger that stuck out to one side on the bolt striker knob, in other words, it wasn't a perfect circle like the 38 and 44 bolt striker knobs were, I have seen that done also, always when someone added a thumb safety to the mechanism.

I don't have any Cerro Safe at the moment, gave what I had to my brother when he was here in February, he hasn't brought it back yet,

You can buy it in 1/2 pound chunks (more than enough ) from Brownell's , it's not real expensive. A half pound bar of it is about $15.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...y-prod384.aspx


You clean the chamber thoroughly, and De-grease it completely, leaving the chamber and leade area dry, then you run a tight fitting patch on a ram rod down from the muzzle, stopping it just in front of the chamber, where the leade starts.

Remove the bolt, heat the Cerro-Safe in a double boiler (a clean tin soup can with the Cerro Safe in it, set into a larger pot of water on the stove, boil the water, the Cerro Safe melts at 158 F), and if you take a pair of pliers and form lip/pour spout on the tin can, when the Cerro Safe melts, you just pour it out of the can (hold the hot can with a pair of piers, or use an oven mitt) into the dry chamber of the gun, stopping when the level reaches the rear of the chamber.

Let it cool for about 10 minutes, then use the cleaning rod and patch that are plugging the bore to push the casting out. Simple.

Then you can measure the casting where it enters the bore to determine the bore diameter, and measure the casting at the rim area, etc. and look up the dimensions to see what cartridge it is chambered for.

If you want to know the bore diameter, without Cerro-Safe, scrounge up a pure lead ball that is close to, but slightly larger than, the bore diameter at the muzzle.

Put a drop or two of oil on it, and using a mallet and a solid brass , aluminum, or oak dowel, drive the ball through the bore until it pops out in the chamber.

Then you can measure it with calipers to find out the bore diameter, but you will still be guessing at the chambering, unless you or a gunsmith does the Cerro Safe casting that is.
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Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean someone ISN'T OUT TO GET YOU!
Just because a complaint was never filed doesn't mean a defective parachute was never made.
I've been to three world's fairs, two rodeos and a goat roping contest, but I've never seen the likes of the stuff that goes on around here before!
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:48 AM   #7
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Thanks NYCO i'll give it a shot (And probably botch it and then do it again.)
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:05 AM   #8
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Cerrosafe has other uses too.

I use it to hold small, hard to grasp parts for filing, shaping, machining/ etc.

I build a small box, set the part in the middle of it, then pour the cerrosafe in around it until it the part is partially submerged in the cerrosafe.

Let it cool, remove the box, and you can hold the cerrosafe in your hand or a vise, etc while you work on it.

When done, just heat the cerrosafe in hot water to free the part.
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Steve


Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean someone ISN'T OUT TO GET YOU!
Just because a complaint was never filed doesn't mean a defective parachute was never made.
I've been to three world's fairs, two rodeos and a goat roping contest, but I've never seen the likes of the stuff that goes on around here before!
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