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Old 05-10-2017, 02:26 PM   #21
jmano
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Have to tried it with some of those "mini" shells? They double the mag cap and they have special adapter for the shockwave. Recoil is way less and no real loss of power.

Just want to have a better product/make some money, not trying to break a moronic, pointless law.
It's not about the recoil it's about how when you hold a pistol grip shotgun to aim you are way less accurate and on top of that the shotgun is out in front of you a few inches further than if you had a stock shouldered.

So you effectively make a gun that is less maneuverable, less follow up capability and less accurate.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:20 PM   #22
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That's right, it is ILLEGAL to put a stock on one of these (Raptor, or Shockwave) that you can shoulder, because that turns it into an unregistered short barreled shotgun.

And adding any "Device" that looks like a stock, and which can be shouldered like a stock, even if you call it an ammo carrier, is very likely going to get you charged as well.
So I figure the worst thing the ATF can say is "No this product is not approved", right?
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:46 PM   #23
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One of the atf definitions of a shotgun includes the phrase "intended to be shouldered". Once you make a shockwave shoulderable it becomes a shotgun, once you make it a shotgun it is illegal at a 14" barrel length without the proper tax stamp.

The loophole is that these guns are able to fall in the tiny crack of not being classified as a shotgun but rather just a generic firearm.
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:13 PM   #24
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So I figure the worst thing the ATF can say is "No this product is not approved", right?
If you are asking the BATFE if it is approved and you have not installed it on a shock wave or raptor, then that could be what they say.

But if you put it on one, then ask their option, what they will say is " put your hands on top of your head and interlock your fingers, you are under arrest" .

If you want a SBS just pay the $200 and then you won't have to worry about getting a cellmate who thinks you are cuter than a kitten and wants to fill your dance card every night.
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Old 05-11-2017, 12:04 AM   #25
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If you are asking the BATFE if it is approved and you have not installed it on a shock wave or raptor, then that could be what they say.

But if you put it on one, then ask their option, what they will say is " put your hands on top of your head and interlock your fingers, you are under arrest" .

If you want a SBS just pay the $200 and then you won't have to worry about getting a cellmate who thinks you are cuter than a kitten and wants to fill your dance card every night.
Ever wonder how many year John Browning would get in today`s America for just tinkering around?
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Old 05-11-2017, 01:52 PM   #26
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Ever wonder how many year John Browning would get in today`s America for just tinkering around?
Well., if he was licensed, NONE.

I developed a number of NFA covered devices over the years, but since I had the manufacturing tax stamp, etc. it was perfectly legal.

Of course also being a federal agent at the time was added insurance....
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:44 PM   #27
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Well., if he was licensed, NONE.

I developed a number of NFA covered devices over the years, but since I had the manufacturing tax stamp, etc. it was perfectly legal.

Of course also being a federal agent at the time was added insurance....
Really Steve You were a fed? I did not know this
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:52 PM   #28
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Really Steve You were a fed? I did not know this
Yup, 31 years worth, after I got out of the Corps.

I inherited the gun shop I grew up in, and we just moved it to wherever I was stationed in the USA.
When I was stationed outside CONUS, my wife ran it if she stayed here, and I hired a gunsmith , if she went with me on longer assignments outside USA, a retired buddy of mine managed the place and the gunsmith.

As long as I was near the shop, I did the custom gunsmithing , the more difficult repairs , if the gunsmith was an apprentice or not a Master Gunsmith.

Between apprentices and fully trained gunsmiths, I just did all the repairs and custom work during my evenings and weekends. Sometimes made for a longer wait time, but the customers never seemed to mind.

All my life I have only slept 2-3 hours out of every 24, that's all I ever needed, so it left lots of time to get things done in the shop in the middle of the night.
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Old 12-02-2017, 06:49 AM   #29
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If you've ever fired a shotgun with a pistol grip (regardless of whether it has an 18 or 14 inch barrel) you'll realize fast it's the most pointless thing on the planet. They certainly are not worth going to prison for.

Buying one is stupid, trying to alter one is stupid to the power of ten.
Not true at all I have a Remington 870 breecher with a 10 in. barrel I have a laser mounted to the rail on top. Deadly accurate to 30 meters when hip firing, past that it wont matter the pattern becomes larger than 3 feet. Although I guess slugs would still work well out farther.

It holds 1 in the chamber and four 12ga 2 1/4 shells in the magazine. I have some new 2 inch slugs I need to test for feeding but I think it will still only be four in the mag.

Recoil is very controllable my wife even shoots it when we take it out to the range.
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:39 AM   #30
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I disagree. The raptor grip is not painful to shoot like the vertical grips such as the hogue tamer, and with practice you can hit what you are aiming at for close range. I reckon with some sort of laser type sight it would be particularly easier to aim as well.

My shotgun with the raptor grip rides shotgun when I go to California. You can pop a shell into it a lot faster than you can unlock a locked case, pull a pistol out, and load it. A single hit with a 00 buckshot shell, if they all hit, is similar to hitting the bad guy with an entire mag from a .32 auto pistol.
Mine rides shotgun to Cali as well, but with a pistol grip. And I can fire from the waist at 10 yards and hit center mass without much practice. Better yet if I actually hold it high to aim with my eyes. No pain as long as it's held firmly with both hands. Kind of fun actually!

But for home defense I'd prefer the barrel to be about half its length to allow for a faster pattern spread in close quarters.

My question is, can this barrel be shortened to qualify the gun as an AOW with the stock pistol grip? The Mossberg 500 in the pic is similar to mine.

http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armsl...l_grip_640.jpg
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