Safe Shot Indoor Shooting Range - Reno - Page 3

oxweeblexo · 02-02-2010, 08:53 PM

yea and every time this subject is brought up a rep from safe shot will say "it took us a long time to get the doors open" my suggestion is if you want it to stay open, make it so that the prices are fair. i dont mind buying my guns from their shop, from what i have seen the guns are actually priced really well. just my $.02

Gunrunner1911 · 02-03-2010, 12:22 AM

Had a call the other day for CCW additions. The guy didn't want to travel out of Reno. I refered him to Safe Shot. He had already spoke with them and according to him wanted to charge for a renewal course $60 plus ammo just to add guns. The word is spreading like wildfire. Reno 4x4 has a thread too. Many are not happy.
I researched this and I would have folded the idea as soon as the City or County said green or gone to war with them if I had the funds. Good news is there is still hope for this town and an indoor shooting complex if the people I know can make it happen it will be huge. I hoping and praying.

oxweeblexo · 02-03-2010, 01:17 AM

you think if having some sort of exhaust system can get around having lead free ammo? or is it more than just having the lead in the ammo i guess it would ultimately be up to the city.

Gunrunner1911 · 02-03-2010, 03:19 PM

Not sure exactly what your asking but there are many ranges built to handle standard ammo.
The main reason for Non Toxic and Frangible is cost is somewhat cheaper. The armoring of the range is less because the rounds break up on impact with a hard surface. Normal ranges are catching and decelerating the round. The non toxic aspect means less scrubbers and filters and maintenance on those systems. You can't just blow the range air out the back anymore. I've been to an older range that did just that.
Theres quite a few aspects to range building and bullet trap selection. Were all familiar with the slanted plate system. The Rubber block trap guys say they're better because the round is caught and contained within the rubber block. No smashing of the round and dispersion of lead. The rubber blocks are built as a wall about 3' thick and it uses less space BUT what about when the blocks get loaded up and rounds impact each other and the lead is coming from the base of the bullet. Walmart used to sell Winchester Clean BEB ammo. It was a totaly enclosed bullet unlike most that leave the bare lead base exposed to the combustion of the powder. Primers were also non toxic. At the time it was sold as generic ammo no one cared and the cost was maybe a penny or 2 more per rnd.
This is a small portion of what goes into it. When I started the project I was overwelmed with information. The cost is staggering, about 85k per lane finished. Mind you you haven't got a "home" for it just a built functioning range. Lease the space I think not. I would not want to lease. right now it's cheap but wait till renewal time even if space is still cheap if your making tons of profit the landlord is going to want his. What are you going to do move? Shut down and move a range? what if you paying 5k but the neighbors combined pay 3x and they complain. The landlord isn't going to take your side and lose 15K a month. You have to own it. Figure at least 1m for the property and retrofit. You need 50'X100' for the range area and at least another 1000 - 1500 for office retail training etc.
I figured 2m to open. a 30yr note is almost 14k per month.
with 12 lanes operating at $15 per hr = $180 hr x 10hrs = $1800 day
$1800 D X 30 D = 54K per month. That's best case all lanes full all hrs all days. Take 20% in taxes. = 43K then - 14K loan = 29K almost $1000 per day after tax and mortgage. Electrical has to be $1500-$2000 M. Based off of the small co I used to work for this would be cheap. Employees 2 x $10hr = $3200 M with SSI workers comp. = about $4800 Insurance $1000 M ? Advertising another $1000 M $8800 so for round fig 20K left. Owner operator salarie better make at least 50K gross if my name is on the mortgage.
$4100 M 15K - 16K profit if operations are 100% take it to 50% and SHTF.
I've probably missed several major factors both pos and neg but you get the idea.

jfrey123 · 02-03-2010, 04:31 PM

City of Reno required them to be lead free, it's not a choice of the range. City of Sparks denied them outright. They originally tried to open off of Rock Blvd.

velvetant · 02-03-2010, 08:42 PM

http://snowulf.com/archives/751-Revi...-Reno,-NV.html

jmano · 02-04-2010, 05:30 AM

I get what you're saying Gunrunner, but the range is a ghost town. I go into the shop at least once a week and there is hardly anyone there shooting at the range and I rarely see more than one other person in the shop. No one is arguing with the range fees, simply the ammo which is being charged at a clip of 67 cents per round for frangible 9mm when it retails for slighly less than 30 cents a round. Heck jack up the range fee another 50% but let me shoot for more than 10 minutes without needing to take out a home equity loan.

If you build it they will come, if you overcharge your ammo they will leave.

Gunrunner1911 · 02-04-2010, 03:02 PM

I was just pointing out what one might be faced with when taking on the endeavor. This is just an example of why you don't have MY range in Reno/Sparks. It's barely profitable. I know guys who make better money and have less overhead operating small businesses.
Reno is an anomoly. Clark County has a new outdoor shooting park and they fought hard for it. To my understanding the indoors are supported mostly by tourists. Reno/Sparks has the Washoe County 570 acre shooting facility. Yet we scream for an indoor venue. I believe this is due to underutilization of the Washoe Range. This is why desert shooting remains popular. The cost isn't the factor as it's $7 per day. It is only open FRI-MON but for most the hrs work. I believe they should be open more and I would pay $10 per day to make it happen. The drive isn't that bad as it's 20 miles from the Mccaren loop that surrounds Reno.
My feeling is it's the market here. The demographics say if we have to pay, and I believe the $15hr range fee to be fair, we just won't. The ammo issue sends it over the top. I think it's just Reno for you. The majority are not going to pay.

jmano · 02-13-2010, 07:35 AM

Wow I know I've complained about this range's prices a few times, but I was still using the gunsmith there and was pleased with his work. Through the gunsmith I was doing an FFL transfer on a gun I had bought from an auction online and was originally quoted a $25 fee plus the $25 background check. But today the big boss there (maybe owner?) made a huge deal out of me needing to pay a $50 fee instead with the $25 background check. I had work that I wanted done on 3 of my guns that I was going to use the gunsmith for but now I pretty much don't want to drop a nickle into that place. It's quite a shame.

Gunrunner1911 · 02-16-2010, 11:12 PM

For any transfers or purchases for that matter I use Maccabee Arms in Reno. Standard $25 and any gun is just a phone call or email away for the best price in town quote. Bill is a great guy to deal with I as well as a few of my friends won't go anywhere else even if we could save a few bucks.

02-03-2010, 04:31 PM	#25
jfrey123 I aim to misbehave... Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sparks, NV Posts: 1,380	City of Reno required them to be lead free, it's not a choice of the range. City of Sparks denied them outright. They originally tried to open off of Rock Blvd. __________________ John Frey - Licensed Producer for Richard Allen Insurance, affiliated with Allstate Insurance Co. (775) 331.7789 Call or PM me for a free quote. We're happy to serve all of Nevada.

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02-02-2010, 08:53 PM	#21
oxweeblexo tuna Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Reno Posts: 107	yea and every time this subject is brought up a rep from safe shot will say "it took us a long time to get the doors open" my suggestion is if you want it to stay open, make it so that the prices are fair. i dont mind buying my guns from their shop, from what i have seen the guns are actually priced really well. just my $.02

02-03-2010, 12:22 AM	#22
Gunrunner1911 tuna Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 147	Had a call the other day for CCW additions. The guy didn't want to travel out of Reno. I refered him to Safe Shot. He had already spoke with them and according to him wanted to charge for a renewal course $60 plus ammo just to add guns. The word is spreading like wildfire. Reno 4x4 has a thread too. Many are not happy. I researched this and I would have folded the idea as soon as the City or County said green or gone to war with them if I had the funds. Good news is there is still hope for this town and an indoor shooting complex if the people I know can make it happen it will be huge. I hoping and praying.

02-03-2010, 01:17 AM	#23
oxweeblexo tuna Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Reno Posts: 107	you think if having some sort of exhaust system can get around having lead free ammo? or is it more than just having the lead in the ammo i guess it would ultimately be up to the city.

02-03-2010, 03:19 PM	#24
Gunrunner1911 tuna Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 147	Not sure exactly what your asking but there are many ranges built to handle standard ammo. The main reason for Non Toxic and Frangible is cost is somewhat cheaper. The armoring of the range is less because the rounds break up on impact with a hard surface. Normal ranges are catching and decelerating the round. The non toxic aspect means less scrubbers and filters and maintenance on those systems. You can't just blow the range air out the back anymore. I've been to an older range that did just that. Theres quite a few aspects to range building and bullet trap selection. Were all familiar with the slanted plate system. The Rubber block trap guys say they're better because the round is caught and contained within the rubber block. No smashing of the round and dispersion of lead. The rubber blocks are built as a wall about 3' thick and it uses less space BUT what about when the blocks get loaded up and rounds impact each other and the lead is coming from the base of the bullet. Walmart used to sell Winchester Clean BEB ammo. It was a totaly enclosed bullet unlike most that leave the bare lead base exposed to the combustion of the powder. Primers were also non toxic. At the time it was sold as generic ammo no one cared and the cost was maybe a penny or 2 more per rnd. This is a small portion of what goes into it. When I started the project I was overwelmed with information. The cost is staggering, about 85k per lane finished. Mind you you haven't got a "home" for it just a built functioning range. Lease the space I think not. I would not want to lease. right now it's cheap but wait till renewal time even if space is still cheap if your making tons of profit the landlord is going to want his. What are you going to do move? Shut down and move a range? what if you paying 5k but the neighbors combined pay 3x and they complain. The landlord isn't going to take your side and lose 15K a month. You have to own it. Figure at least 1m for the property and retrofit. You need 50'X100' for the range area and at least another 1000 - 1500 for office retail training etc. I figured 2m to open. a 30yr note is almost 14k per month. with 12 lanes operating at $15 per hr = $180 hr x 10hrs = $1800 day $1800 D X 30 D = 54K per month. That's best case all lanes full all hrs all days. Take 20% in taxes. = 43K then - 14K loan = 29K almost $1000 per day after tax and mortgage. Electrical has to be $1500-$2000 M. Based off of the small co I used to work for this would be cheap. Employees 2 x $10hr = $3200 M with SSI workers comp. = about $4800 Insurance $1000 M ? Advertising another $1000 M $8800 so for round fig 20K left. Owner operator salarie better make at least 50K gross if my name is on the mortgage. $4100 M 15K - 16K profit if operations are 100% take it to 50% and SHTF. I've probably missed several major factors both pos and neg but you get the idea.

02-03-2010, 08:42 PM	#26
velvetant guppy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Reno Posts: 11	http://snowulf.com/archives/751-Revi...-Reno,-NV.html

02-04-2010, 05:30 AM	#27
jmano guppy Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 34	I get what you're saying Gunrunner, but the range is a ghost town. I go into the shop at least once a week and there is hardly anyone there shooting at the range and I rarely see more than one other person in the shop. No one is arguing with the range fees, simply the ammo which is being charged at a clip of 67 cents per round for frangible 9mm when it retails for slighly less than 30 cents a round. Heck jack up the range fee another 50% but let me shoot for more than 10 minutes without needing to take out a home equity loan. If you build it they will come, if you overcharge your ammo they will leave.

02-04-2010, 03:02 PM	#28
Gunrunner1911 tuna Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 147	I was just pointing out what one might be faced with when taking on the endeavor. This is just an example of why you don't have MY range in Reno/Sparks. It's barely profitable. I know guys who make better money and have less overhead operating small businesses. Reno is an anomoly. Clark County has a new outdoor shooting park and they fought hard for it. To my understanding the indoors are supported mostly by tourists. Reno/Sparks has the Washoe County 570 acre shooting facility. Yet we scream for an indoor venue. I believe this is due to underutilization of the Washoe Range. This is why desert shooting remains popular. The cost isn't the factor as it's $7 per day. It is only open FRI-MON but for most the hrs work. I believe they should be open more and I would pay $10 per day to make it happen. The drive isn't that bad as it's 20 miles from the Mccaren loop that surrounds Reno. My feeling is it's the market here. The demographics say if we have to pay, and I believe the $15hr range fee to be fair, we just won't. The ammo issue sends it over the top. I think it's just Reno for you. The majority are not going to pay.

02-13-2010, 07:35 AM	#29
jmano guppy Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 34	Wow I know I've complained about this range's prices a few times, but I was still using the gunsmith there and was pleased with his work. Through the gunsmith I was doing an FFL transfer on a gun I had bought from an auction online and was originally quoted a $25 fee plus the $25 background check. But today the big boss there (maybe owner?) made a huge deal out of me needing to pay a $50 fee instead with the $25 background check. I had work that I wanted done on 3 of my guns that I was going to use the gunsmith for but now I pretty much don't want to drop a nickle into that place. It's quite a shame.

02-16-2010, 11:12 PM	#30
Gunrunner1911 tuna Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 147	For any transfers or purchases for that matter I use Maccabee Arms in Reno. Standard $25 and any gun is just a phone call or email away for the best price in town quote. Bill is a great guy to deal with I as well as a few of my friends won't go anywhere else even if we could save a few bucks.