Gun Inheritance

[trryan5]

My parents live in California and own four guns. Their trusts say that the first spouse to die leaves everything to the survivor, and the survivor then leaves everything to the four children, to be split equally. There are no specific gifts of anything. My parents are in good health, but eventually my siblings and I are going to be faced with the issue of what to do with the guns, so I thought I'd ask for advice (my in-laws and their lawyers are circling like vultures around my aged father-in-law, so wills are on my mind right now).

One of the guns is an M1 Garand, I believe it was army surplus. I remember my Dad having to go through a background check and qualify on the shooting range, so I'm sure everything's legal with that gun. Another is a basic .22 rifle which he's had since at least the '70s. Then there's a replica revolutionary war musket; I think he bought it in '76. I'm sure he complied with all the laws at the time. Possibly the stickiest one is a Colt M1911 which was my grandfather's sidearm in WWI. I'm not sure if it was legal, but he kept it after the war and left it to my Dad when he died.

My three siblings live in California while I live in Nevada. My sisters have no interest in guns. My brother would probably take any or all, but I don't think he has a strong desire for any of them. I'd love to have that Colt, but I don't care much about the others, and I'd let one of my siblings take the Colt if it turned out they really wanted it.

I'm wondering what kind of registration requirements there are for inherited guns, and if it's a problem that the trust just says split everything four ways rather than this person gets this gun and that person gets that gun. It would be pretty awful to have to go to probate court just to fix the title to the guns. Nobody involved has any kind of criminal record or special restrictions on owning guns.

[Tophog]

Originally Posted by 57442

Unless you have a C&R FFL, most of the guns should be transferred to a Nevada FFL by the trustee assuming the trust is outside of Nevada. You would have to transfer them to yourself like any other non C&R gun with a possible background check, and transfer fee. If you have a C&R FFL, executor can send those guns directly to you. If you live in Clark County, the FFL will help you fill out the blue cards.

Any pre-1898 guns can be sent directly to you.

As to how to split the guns, that is only something your parents can decide. If the trust isn't specific, then the trustee will have to decide who gets what. If you are all trustees then you have to decide together or it is possible that the court may get involved if one party wants it. If your parents want to head that problem off, then they should put in the trust who gets what. But if things stay the same, then there is no problem transferring guns if they are in a trust.

If there are any NFA items in the trust (doesn't look like it as CA rarely permits them), there are additional concerns.

You sound rather knowledgeable, but unless you are a member of Bunker Law Group, please don't answer questions posted in their commercial section. If the question was posted in a general forum section, that would be different.

Thanks.

[trryan5]

Originally Posted by 57442

Unless you have a C&R FFL, most of the guns should be transferred to a Nevada FFL by the trustee assuming the trust is outside of Nevada. You would have to transfer them to yourself like any other non C&R gun with a possible background check, and transfer fee. If you have a C&R FFL, executor can send those guns directly to you. If you live in Clark County, the FFL will help you fill out the blue cards.

Sorry to be so ignorant, but HUH? What is a Nevada FFL? What is a C&R FFL? What is a blue card? Maybe I should have mentioned that while I've fired my father's guns a number of times, I've never owned a gun myself.

[57442]

Originally Posted by Tophog

You sound rather knowledgeable, but unless you are a member of Bunker Law Group, please don't answer questions posted in their commercial section. If the question was posted in a general forum section, that would be different.

Thanks.

Sorry, thought I would help out. Won't do that again unless it is in a non-sponsor forum.

[The Law]

Originally Posted by trryan5

My parents live in California and own four guns. Their trusts say that the first spouse to die leaves everything to the survivor, and the survivor then leaves everything to the four children, to be split equally. There are no specific gifts of anything. My parents are in good health, but eventually my siblings and I are going to be faced with the issue of what to do with the guns, so I thought I'd ask for advice (my in-laws and their lawyers are circling like vultures around my aged father-in-law, so wills are on my mind right now).

One of the guns is an M1 Garand, I believe it was army surplus. I remember my Dad having to go through a background check and qualify on the shooting range, so I'm sure everything's legal with that gun. Another is a basic .22 rifle which he's had since at least the '70s. Then there's a replica revolutionary war musket; I think he bought it in '76. I'm sure he complied with all the laws at the time. Possibly the stickiest one is a Colt M1911 which was my grandfather's sidearm in WWI. I'm not sure if it was legal, but he kept it after the war and left it to my Dad when he died.

My three siblings live in California while I live in Nevada. My sisters have no interest in guns. My brother would probably take any or all, but I don't think he has a strong desire for any of them. I'd love to have that Colt, but I don't care much about the others, and I'd let one of my siblings take the Colt if it turned out they really wanted it.

I'm wondering what kind of registration requirements there are for inherited guns, and if it's a problem that the trust just says split everything four ways rather than this person gets this gun and that person gets that gun. It would be pretty awful to have to go to probate court just to fix the title to the guns. Nobody involved has any kind of criminal record or special restrictions on owning guns.

I'm guessing that CA law will govern the disposition of the trust property since your parents reside there. I'm also assuming the firearms are part of the trust. The trustee must dispose of the property pursuant to the trust. If the terms do not permit any kind of discretion, then the property will likely be distributed accordingly.

Just because there are four guns does not mean one goes to each sibling. I suspect there is other property in the trust as well. If the only condition is that the property be distributed "equally," then that is all the trustee must do. That could mean four guns to one sibling. or three guns to one and one to another, or any variation thereof. So long as the property distribution is "equal," the trustee is ok.

However, there really aren't enough facts to give you a solid answer. And I don't know CA law. That's the best I can come up with.

[bongo44]

Does having an NFA trust guard against future/possible gun legislation prohibiting/regulating the non-NFA trust transfer of Title 1 weapons to heirs by a decedant? This is, I believe, categorized by BATFE as a "non-voluntary" transfer. Sen. Feinstein's proposed legislation would disallow transfer of said weapons to heirs upon death, thus making the weapons award of the State.

Could you please briefly summarize the benefits and disadvantages of having an irrevocable NFA trust?

[The Law]

Originally Posted by bongo44

Does having an NFA trust guard against future/possible gun legislation prohibiting/regulating the non-NFA trust transfer of Title 1 weapons to heirs by a decedant? This is, I believe, categorized by BATFE as a "non-voluntary" transfer. Sen. Feinstein's proposed legislation would disallow transfer of said weapons to heirs upon death, thus making the weapons award of the State.

Could you please briefly summarize the benefits and disadvantages of having an irrevocable NFA trust?

That's tough to predict. If there are no transfers (Form 4 or 5, etc.) then nothing will be able to work. It all really depends on how any legislation is drafted. Feinstein's bill won't make it out of the Senate, let alone through the House.

As to your second question, is that in general or vis-a-vis any proposed gun control legislation?

[bongo44]

Originally Posted by The Law

Feinstein's bill won't make it out of the Senate, let alone through the House.

As to your second question, is that in general or vis-a-vis any proposed gun control legislation?

Re Feinstein's bill: Holding my breath!!

second question, in general.

Thanks!

[The Law]

Originally Posted by bongo44

Re Feinstein's bill: Holding my breath!!

second question, in general.

Thanks!

ATF prefers Revocable living trusts for NFA purposes instead of Irrevocable trusts. The reasoning is that the trust can be revoked/amended if needed.

Advantages of a trust are:

Skip photographs
Skip fingerprints
Skip CLEO sign off
Multiple individuals can possess as co-trustees
Transfer to beneficiaries upon Trustor's death is via a Form 5 (no stamp tax paid)

Disadvantages:

Initial set-up fee (although I think $199 isn't that bad)
Might not make sense for only one NFA purchase/transfer