So you stripped your hex screws...

[Bulleteater]

Savage really tightens the heck out of their stock mounts. I tried to remove them with a standard 3/32 allen wrench and sure enough, I rounded the hex screws. Note to self: need to invest in some good Torx wrenches for the next project. But for this, the damage was already done. So now what?

Research online proved that I made a mistake not using some penetrating oil FIRST to help lossen them up before wrenching on them. Then I went over to Rimfire Central and found a very simple solution to my problem.

So I got out my dremel and slipped on a cutting disk, ground a line right through the middle of the screw and over part of the mount. I cut enough so that I could fit a flathead screwdriver into the cut out groove. Then I applied some penetrating oil and left it overnight to cure.

Next day I took a flathead screwdriver and really LEANED into it to get some leverage. The screws popped loose without a hitch.



I had to restart the right screw b/c the initial cut wasn't centered enough.

Here's the Rimfire Central thread (with photo) that gave me the "Ah Ha!" moment (shout out to "hilers"...
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=421851

[jfrey123]

I've done that on more than one occasion. Works great if the screw protrudes above the surface or if you aren't concerned about damaging the item they're mounted in.

[NYECOGunsmith]

Originally Posted by Bulleteater

Savage really tightens the heck out of their stock mounts. I tried to remove them with a standard 3/32 allen wrench and sure enough, I rounded the hex screws. Note to self: need to invest in some good Torx wrenches for the next project. But for this, the damage was already done. So now what?

Research online proved that I made a mistake not using some penetrating oil FIRST to help lossen them up before wrenching on them. Then I went over to Rimfire Central and found a very simple solution to my problem.

So I got out my dremel and slipped on a cutting disk, ground a line right through the middle of the screw and over part of the mount. I cut enough so that I could fit a flathead screwdriver into the cut out groove. Then I applied some penetrating oil and left it overnight to cure.

Next day I took a flathead screwdriver and really LEANED into it to get some leverage. The screws popped loose without a hitch.



I had to restart the right screw b/c the initial cut wasn't centered enough.

Here's the Rimfire Central thread (with photo) that gave me the "Ah Ha!" moment (shout out to "hilers"...
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=421851

Good solution to the problem Greg, and one I have had to employ myself a few times.

Here's how to avoid the problem in the future folks.

OK, if the screws are tight AND you are using the correct wrench type ( metric Allen, SAE Allen, or Torx. don't mix and match!) and the screw doesn't break free with just average finger pressure (remember , these are supposed to be torqued to only 15-20 inch pounds MAX, most are 12-15 inch pounds) STOP!!!!

Put a bit of penetrating oil on it. Break out your electric, fine tip soldering iron (Radio Shack, under $10) heat it up, and put the tip in the socket of the screw.
Leave it there for a minute or less. Put some more penetrating oil on it, repeat the soldering iron application one more time.

Let it cool completely, cold to the touch. Put the correct size wrench in the recess, and gently TIGHTEN the screw just a 1/16th or less of a turn.


Put a last drop of penetrating oil on it, let it soak in for a moment, and then unscrew it.

Unless it was damaged on the way in, or has the mega strength Loc TiteŽ on it, it will now come out easily.

Heating the screw causes it to expand, helping it to break free of the female threads, and letting the penetrating oil get in there. Tightening it slightly breaks up an fretting (corrosion) that may be in the threads and helps break free from most of the light weight thread lockers as well . The heat helps with that too.

In some cases you may need to heat the piece of metal gently that the screw threads into, and apply cold (ice cube, blast of canned air turned upside down, Electronic Freezer Mist if you can find some, etc.) to the screw head. This shrinks the screw slightly while the part it is screwed into expands from being heated. This provides a few ten thousandths of an inch of clearance between the male and female threads and that can make all the difference in the world.

Using Metric Allens in a SAE recess, or vice versa, will quickly round the socket.

Using Torx wrenches in an Allen recess (SAE or Metric) will do the same thing.

Using Allen wrenches in a Torx recess will round it out quickly.

Always buy the highest quality SAE, Metric, and Torx wrenches you can find, NOT HARBOR FREIGHT!!

A full set of Elkind, or Bondhaus in all three types will set you back less than $30 from Enco.

They are properly hardened, and the corners and sides are the proper dimensions for the recesses.

When you encounter a rounded recess that you need to remove (you didn't round it, it came to you that way) , Greg's fix is one possibility for removing the screws.

Here's another approach:

Perform the penetrating oil and heat regime as described above.

Then put a small drop of super glue in the recess, and insert the proper size and type wrench in it. Let the glue set so it will hold the wrench vertically for you.

Grab your prick punch and go around the sides of recess putting the tip of the punch on the screw head, just a bit out from the wrench, with the tip angled in towards the wrench and the striking head angled out away from wrench.

Strike the punch carefully, and upset metal towards the wrench as though you were staking a part in place. Go around the wrench in a counter clockwise motion, this will also help to loosen the fastener for you.

This staking will move the metal towards the recess socket just ever so slightly, but it will be enough to give the wrench a good full bite on the sides and corners of the recess. The corners are where the actual drive force is applied in a Allen head fastener by the way.

It should now come right out. Don't reinstall it, get a new screw!

[eddoker]

Some great info to know. Thanks!

[Bulleteater]

Originally Posted by jfrey123

I've done that on more than one occasion. Works great if the screw protrudes above the surface or if you aren't concerned about damaging the item they're mounted in.

Since the rifle came with an EGW 20 moa rail that the seller included in the package, I wasn't too broken up about mangling the stock mount, which happens to be a two-piece, and does not seem as stable as the one-piece EGW. Most of the more experienced bolt gun shooters seem to perfer the one-piece rails for their scopes, from what I've noticed in the pictorials. YMMV.

[Bulleteater]

Originally Posted by NYECOGunsmith

Here's another approach:

Perform the penetrating oil and heat regime as described above.

Then put a small drop of super glue in the recess, and insert the proper size and type wrench in it. Let the glue set so it will hold the wrench vertically for you.

Grab your prick punch and go around the sides of recess putting the tip of the punch on the screw head, just a bit out from the wrench, with the tip angled in towards the wrench and the striking head angled out away from wrench.

Strike the punch carefully, and upset metal towards the wrench as though you were staking a part in place. Go around the wrench in a counter clockwise motion, this will also help to loosen the fastener for you.

This staking will move the metal towards the recess socket just ever so slightly, but it will be enough to give the wrench a good full bite on the sides and corners of the recess. The corners are where the actual drive force is applied in a Allen head fastener by the way.

It should now come right out. Don't reinstall it, get a new screw!

That is a problem I noted when using my allen wrench. It was the closest fit I could get but still, it did not get the full bite on the recess, which contributed to the rounding. I used a 3/32 and the next size up was 7/64 but that was too big. Allen wrenches on a key ring...bought from your favorite store, Harbor Freight.

I know, I know

I'm just happy I got the job done, with a little improvising and online help. Did I mention that I LUV the Internet?

[NYECOGunsmith]

Originally Posted by Bulleteater

That is a problem I noted when using my allen wrench. It was the closest fit I could get but still, it did not get the full bite on the recess, which contributed to the rounding. I used a 3/32 and the next size up was 7/64 but that was too big. Allen wrenches on a key ring...bought from your favorite store, Harbor Freight.

I know, I know

I'm just happy I got the job done, with a little improvising and online help. Did I mention that I LUV the Internet?

Well, if a 3/32 was a bit too small, and a 7/84 was a bit to big, odds are it was a metric 2.5mm recess, that's just about right in the middle between those two SAE sizes.

[daveinvegas]

I recently had a similar problem. I drilled the screw heads off a scope ring. With the screw heads gone the rest of the screws turned out easily and I saved the rings. Now I only have to replace the screws.

I would think it would be easier to drill/mill off the heads of hex screws than the slotted screws I had to drill out.

[jfrey123]

Originally Posted by Bulleteater

I used a 3/32 and the next size up was 7/64 but that was too big. Allen wrenches on a key ring...bought from your favorite store, Harbor Freight.

I don't mind Harbor Freight tools, but I bet NYECO was right: you were dealing with metric sized hex heads. I only learned of their existence about 3 years ago, and I thought the guy who told me about them was messing with me.

[NYECOGunsmith]

Generally HF tools are not too bad. Even their "entry level" , the ones currently being made in India are not too bad, BUT, the allen type wrenches have not caught up yet in terms of metallurgical quality. They actually have three levels of tools, the handy man stuff they carry in the stores, and the "Pro" line and Industrial Line you have to order by going to the store and asking to see the catalogs for each of those.

The industrial stuff is actually pretty good, and a bit less expensive than it's American Made counterparts are.

Some HF Allen and Torx wrenches are soft and twist or round over easily, most are brittle and snap off, and quite a few I have measured are not dimensionally accurate.

For at tool that can cause so much grief, it's far better to spend the $30 for a set of the three recessed wrench types (Metric and SAE Allen, and Torx) made by Elkind, Bondhus, etc. and not have to deal with it.

Drilling the head off a recessed Allen can prove touchy if you don't select the correct drill size, what happens is the feed lips on the bit grab unevenly on the hex recess sides, a piece of the head snaps off and the bit jumps into the surrounding metal or wood, damaging it.

I've had quite a few guns brought to me over the years that the above was what caused the damage.

The old Master Tool and Die maker who taught me his trade as well as the gunsmithing trade, advised instead of drilling the head off, use a left handed drill bit a bit smaller than the recess in the screw and drilling out the center of the screw first. This will often free it up and the last few revolutions of the bit will back the screw out for you.

The bottom of that recess, by the way, usually comes to a slight point if you look at it under a bright light and magnifying glass. That feature helps keep the bit centered.
If it doesn't back the screw out, then you go to a slightly larger left handed bit, one who's diameter is equal to the length of the cutting lips on the first drill you used.

This is the same way you step up drill bit size when going from a small perfectly centered hole to a much larger one by the way, so that the bit doesn't wander and give you an off center hole, or one that is not as round as it can be.

Keep going up in size in this manner until the screw either spins out, or you have drilled out the body of the screw. It's rarely ever necessary with this method to go to a bit large enough to remove the screw's head in it's entirety, and the bit won't be jumping around and marring things for you.

Of course, as with any drilling task, the work piece should be held as securely as possible, and that doesn't mean by hand! Clamp it to the drill press table, or your work bench if you are using a hand drill, and use at least two clamps, three points is better.

Some screw, depending on their location in the gun, will be so stubborn that you will need to TIG or MIG weld a cheap (HF!) Allen wrench into the recess, if it can be done without over heating the surrounding metal of course.

The quick tack weld's heat will help free the stuck threads, and of course the wrench can't slip out if it's welded on!

But that's usually a last resort method for me.